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QUOTE originally posted by Terabbit

QUOTE originally posted by DemiDanni

"I think the pokefarm community should give something back since we're asking for more transparency and thats patience and not resorting to jumping the gun when changes are made, criticism? Fine and good, but blaming the staff for necessary actions or changes and saying mean things to them? Not so much." Yeah we do give something back--our money, lol.
okay, big woop, we give pokefarm money, not that its a competition but i can garuntee that i have invested muuuuch more money into this silly little site than the average player. I noticed a few other players who are big spenders like myself also react calmly towards the news of the minisprites being broken. The least a user that enjoys this site could do is give the staff some respect, there are tons of f2p players here so 'we give them our money lol' is a dumb thing to mention lol. What i cant comprehend is thinking that a team of volunteer artists that were being harrassed is less of a deal than a small site function being removed. yes, people went 'oh jeez thats serious, but stiiiilll couldve told us' when garthic explained what happened, but garthic was asleep when this was brought to niets attention so niet was upset and the art staff were upset, he did what he could considering the circumstances, maybe the situation had him so upset he considered making it a permanent change?? know, like give an inch and take a mile? so Niet just took away the inch. I don't know, id feel that way if entitled users went to my volunteer art staff and made them feel incompetent.... also I think i might be reading in between the lines too much but it really seems like what niet did was simply a band-aid for the issue, no minisprite preview? no artists getting un asked for messages. Garthic can explain later. He literally said ' wait, garthic will explain' yet im just reading tons of aggressive posts that jump the gun, and again with the speculation. Anyways, im done here, peace out, have fun.
Yes, I also have contributed my own money to the site. Big woop, some of your friends who pay for ZC or whatever reacted calmly. Well, guess what, some reacted in a more critical manner. Is it not reasonable for me to be irritated when they make changes in such an immature manner, not realising they run this site basically to profit? If I'm paying money towards a thing I usually expect it to be run competently--and by and large, Pokéfarm certainly is. If they make changes I dislike or implement them in ways that I do not like, I should hope I am well within my rights to criticise the change or the handling of the change. Calling users like us "entitled" for reacting negatively to something that was genuinely not handled well is pretty scummy and a lower blow than any of the criticism anyone has made about this. EDIT! I realise this was about harassment of art staff, but my point stands if anyone was to make this point about the reaction to the update.
Avatar: Official (Project Sekai)
Terabbit's AvatarTerabbit
Terabbit's Avatar
I said id stop im not going to respond to the actual message because i dont want to argue but i want to clarify that when i said "entitled users" I am in no way referring to the people who reacted incredibly negativly or posted critism, I am refering to the people that pmd artists with unwarented critiques.
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Background drawn by AdimivA on twitter Gif created by JUSTICEBEETLE F2U & Icon code by Gumshoe
Constantine's AvatarConstantine
Constantine's Avatar
I'm going to say something, but even if you give company/business money it doesn't give you the right to treat people in a manner that you wouldn't wish to be treated yourself. The idea that people believe that they can is the same entitlement that people believe that just because they buy coffee at a Starbucks that they can shout at the staff serving the coffee because they got your order wrong. There's a reason why a lot of places have rules where even if you're a customer and if you're rude to the staff you can and will be removed from their property. No, just because you pay money into something doesn't give you that right. Finally, the art staff are volunteers - they're not paid. None of the staff are, we're all volunteers. I get it, you want transparency, but there's a lot going on behind the scenes. A lot that hiring another person to give 'updates' isn't going to achieve anything.
♔ Fae King Give me equality.
UnownVelouria's AvatarUnownVelouria
UnownVelouria's Avatar

QUOTE originally posted by skiddo

QUOTE originally posted by rmcqu1

Edit: Yes, we could have waited for Garth's response, but the way Niet worded the update, it gave me the same vibes a PM from a mod gives. The "you messed up so badly I'm about to ban you for a million years and I'm not even going to tell you why" vibe. So I think the player responses were just inline with the tone we got from Niet's message.
Except mods don't do that, from my experience.
I'm not sure what specifically you're referring to, but that is the feeling I get whenever a staff member PMs me. @Constance I haven't seen anyone say, or even imply, that harrassment was fine. Some of the comments have been about giving feedback. The people who have bought zc, whether from players or the site directly, have put an investment into the site, but if they're not allowed to give their feedback, then they'll stop investing, and the site dies. That's how businesses work, whether the staff are volunteers or not.
Buying Sapphire Orbs! PM me if you're selling. Profile picture by BananaLizard. Mimikyu/Sakura (FE) fusion.
Teaques's AvatarTeaques
Teaques's Avatar

QUOTE originally posted by Constantine

I'm going to say something, but even if you give company/business money it doesn't give you the right to treat people in a manner that you wouldn't wish to be treated yourself. The idea that people believe that they can is the same entitlement that people believe that just because they buy coffee at a Starbucks that they can shout at the staff serving the coffee because they got your order wrong. There's a reason why a lot of places have rules where even if you're a customer and if you're rude to the staff you can and will be removed from their property. No, just because you pay money into something doesn't give you that right. Finally, the art staff are volunteers - they're not paid. None of the staff are, we're all volunteers. I get it, you want transparency, but there's a lot going on behind the scenes. A lot that hiring another person to give 'updates' isn't going to achieve anything.
I'm sorry but if you are referring to my post, I did make it very clear that we should be respectful towards the staff, and the users who engage in rude behaviour should be punished. That includes PMing the artists, harassing them, being overly emotional in criticism, etc. Yelling at the staff in Starbucks is wrong. So is splashing an innocent customer with coffee, rage quitting the counter, then coming back a few hours later and saying "Sorry, I overreacted because another customer had been rude to me."
avatar drawn by me
Constantine's AvatarConstantine
Constantine's Avatar
It's good that people believe this, but from a staffs point of view looking in. It's a completely different matter. That's what happens when you can't read tone because there is none through text. While you may not wish to be attacking or across as it - well, you know how it goes. My comment was a broad sweep, not just for the posts here but just for the general basis of what's going on. I don't expect people to hold staffs hands and treat them as if they're fragile little clay dolls. But it's always good to read back what you're saying and think, what does this read like looking in.
Just woke up.

QUOTE originally posted by Teaques

Because the overwhelming majority of them still buys ZC
This actually interested me so I decided I'd look in to the statistics because it was mentioned in the DevLog that statistics are quite interesting... So uh, here you go. If we look at all users, ever, and ask if they've ever had any interaction with ZC... then 92.7% haven't. If we narrow that down a little bit to 'people who have hatched at least 100 eggs' then we get to 70%. If we then change that to 'people who have hatched at least 1,000 eggs' then it swings in the other direction where 68% of people *have* had some kind of ZC interaction. I'm not doing this to specifically show anything... It's just something that interested me and I thought it might be interesting to you guys too.
Personally I think this horse has been beaten for long enough and people are just going around in circles now. Time to stop and move on. I feel like We all get it at this stage. Could have been handled better but are understanding of the reason why what happened, happened - fair criticism has been offered on the matter, and some unfair, but it is what it is. It seems like the going in circles is resulting in raised tensions and I just don't really see the need for it. The feedback is appreciated but I think we can stop now. c:
Terabbit's AvatarTerabbit
Terabbit's Avatar

QUOTE originally posted by Garthic

Just woke up.

QUOTE originally posted by Teaques

Because the overwhelming majority of them still buys ZC
This actually interested me so I decided I'd look in to the statistics because it was mentioned in the DevLog that statistics are quite interesting... So uh, here you go. If we look at all users, ever, and ask if they've ever had any interaction with ZC... then 92.7% haven't. If we narrow that down a little bit to 'people who have hatched at least 100 eggs' then we get to 70%. If we then change that to 'people who have hatched at least 1,000 eggs' then it swings in the other direction where 68% of people *have* had some kind of ZC interaction.
im curious, what constitutes interaction with ZC? is it recieving it via trades/gifts or is it directly purchasing from the site?
Any interaction at all :) If it made their account number go from 0 to 1, that's an interaction - same for 0 to 100, so on and so forth :p So I'm not talking about people making purchases - trading, being given a gift of ZC -- literally anything.
UnownVelouria's AvatarUnownVelouria
UnownVelouria's Avatar

QUOTE originally posted by Garthic

Any interaction at all :) If it made their account number go from 0 to 1, that's an interaction - same for 0 to 100, so on and so forth :p So I'm not talking about people making purchases - trading, being given a gift of ZC -- literally anything.
Is it possible to check this stat with all accounts active any time in 2020? Maybe also limited to a certain activity level. To weed out those "I signed up then immediately quit" accounts. No bulb users, maybe? Might give a better idea of the percentage currently, since I know there's a good number of large players who have quit over the years.

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