Sprite Discovery Discussion

Yis hello, how is everyone. More text walls neatly organized. I like accordions.

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_{Edits: Typos. >:(}

Alright. I finished typing and went to submit this not seconds after Sei posted so there might be redundancies below now but; Not that I'm stamping my foot and demanding it be done NOW, because quite frankly, I don't care about Galarian Ponyta just like I didn't care about what I'm about to mention, but the last time I saw this much negative feedback on a sprite was about six months ago, when they did this to Vulpix. It was a drastic and unnanounced change and it made a lot of people upset. About the same amount of people who caused a hubbub about G. Ponyta. They still couldn't please everyone, of course, but they fixed that sprite in about two days. If so many people are upset about Ponyta, shouldn't it be made a priority? Why has it been almost five times as long? With the ones that need to be resprited altogether, like Sinistea, I certainly understand, but the "fixing" of the base sprite is so miniscule for G. Pontyta. It should boil down to a single recolor, essentially, if I'm not mistaken? With everyone saying that the highest priority is to make sure these sprites are high quality, complete and whatnot, before they're even initially released I just hope these fixes are being made priority, and the art team isn't simply moving onto the next drop and brushing this aside. I know that the criticism was likely very demotivating, especially with some people's attitudes about it this time in particular, but it seems like it effected the art team more than ever - understandably. A vast, vast majority of these new sprites have absolutely blown me away. They really have! But it does seem like this drop had... numerous issues. I hope that these designs aren't becoming rushed. It feels like perhaps this last batch might have been... not as ready as it could have been? The site can wait for things to be thoroughly reviewed and perfected, to avoid this sort of thing in the future. It's never possible to please everyone, but when something is ,,bad'' it seems to be a fairly broad consensus. That being said. I'm glad that our feedback is noticed at all, but please remember (as stated in the first page and in several places throughout the thread) that making highly specific color suggestions/fixes can actually be bad and limiting for the art staff as they can't "take" your idea and use it. I felt the need to repeat that because... yeah. Well, I rambled, now I'm gonna leave.

@Sei: That does make sense, thanks! Also since I took such a long break, I never knew Vulpix briefly had a greenish Melan? And people disliked it? Wild; I like it more than the current blue :'D It is hard to please everyone.

@timid, since Sei has taken all this time to type all that up I figure I'll drop in a swift reply to give her some time away from attacking her poor keyboard. The tldr is, the situations are non-comparable. The sprite you're referencing was not dropped amid a region-release like these were - so Sei is choosing to do this herself rather than taking the team away from the rest of the region. Of course, this doesn't stop feedback or anything but as Sei has mentioned, she has been busy with life-stuff kicking her in the shins. She's in the middle of NYC, family are home when they normally are not - she barely has a free minute, I'm honestly lucky to see her for more than a few hours. The bad news that she got was that her uncle passed away due to covid. She's not having the best time right now, y'know? All that's being asked for here is some patience and understanding. It's been said it'll happen. It'll happen. We're in agreement that something went wrong here and they do need updating, but the priority is on getting everything available and then fixing the ones that need it - or only breaking a single person (Sei) off to do them. Unfortunately, things happened and her being that person has led to delays but there's not much that can be done about that. Releases are not on a strict schedule - more time was recently requested as a result of the recent happenings and was obviously granted. If more time is needed, more time is given. Something just went wrong here and we acknowledge that... We don't necessarily know what but... Yeah. They're gonna get a fix.

I'm a bit hesitant to step into this, but here I am! I feel as though I am one of the very few users in favor of updating kanto ponyta's colors. The melan is lovely now, yes, but art is about looking back and wondering "how could I improve this?" I also personally like what the art team did to vulpix as well! As Sei mentioned, color math gives a general idea of how the colors should look, and - though I am no expert on the subject - it can give a baseline on how a sprite's color scheme can be improved upon. Nothing is ever perfect! Improvements can always be made even if they are small, such as the hooves on kanto ponyta <3 Edit: Typos! On mobile ;w;

i think one of the big issues is that we don't even know what we can safely hunt anymore. if you hunt for a melan that hasn't been updated yet, you're doing so with the knowledge that it will be changed in the future. if you hunt something that's already been updated, then you expect that the melan you get is the melan you keep. these seemingly random updates to kanto are really frustrating for a lot of us, especially when they're popular mons (eevee, vulpix, ponyta). combine that with the fact that we've been waiting for sinnoh for...how long? staff keep telling us it's being worked on, but we never get any evidence of that (just saw that the thread about it has been updated recently, but its been over 2 months since the last update, so...). instead, we get re-revamps of "finished" lines and it's just...frustrating. i guess a lot of us just wanna know when these "re-revamps" will finally be over. we don't want to be anxious about every single mon we hunt before sinnoh being changed seemingly out of nowhere. i understand the desire to go back and improve but at some point things need to be considered final.

Thanks Garth, I'm glad to hear that they're still being given "as much time as it takes," as a deadline. That being said (and I wasn't gonna post just to be like, I'm glad to hear what Garth said) I reeeeeally have to agree with Cinderace. As much as art is about progress and improvement, there has to be a point where you deem something finished; don't the spriters crave finality as much as the users? Surely it isn't always going to be a case of, "well, it's been 2+ years since we did anything with this region's sprites and I think it's time to revisit and change them again"? While I often enjoy seeing the sprites that stick out like a sore thumb get a new paint job, I'm on a very long list of users that would like to know what they spent time and money of their life obtaining is going to remain as is. I've kept a lot of my hunts more low stake or stuck to pokemon I'm not terribly invested in just because of this. In a way it's actually one of the few things that keeps me very cautious and reserved about actually loving this game.

Thank you Sei (and Garth^^) for taking the time and explaining it all that detailed. Again, I also need to thank all the art staff for their time and hard work on the sprites and making this game lively. But I also need to chime in here. As much as consistency is appreciated and as much as I understand an artist unstatisfied with some of the sprites.. I'm also one of the Users who seem to crave certainty. Certainty that a albino/melan that I invested so much time and money in, will stay like it is. For me, like timid, I focused on regions 'already done', as I'm super mega picky about the colours of the melans I keep. Seeing mons of 'already done' regions getting superise overhauls downs me, personally, alot. It's not that I don't appreciat the work and thoughts went to that overhaul its just... exhausting. I do not want to sound rude or want to guilt-trip anyone, but for me, I'm at a point where I lose more and more interest in hunting on this site, as I can't plan ahead. Without being interested to hunt anymore, there is currently not much that keeps me on this site. Sprites are the vital point and lifeblood of the site and with this uncertainty it is hard to rly like them. Maybe it would be an idea, as it was suggested from one of the art staff (sorry, can't recall the name), to keep the userbase updated on the progress in a thread. Just, because the suprise of those sudden changes is even worse than knowing what is comming (atleast for me).

regarding the revamps and the recent changes to the way melans are made... im in the camp of 'i cant wait to see how they improve my babies!!' ;o; like.. i hunted scolipede for EVER (15000 chain, 1 melan, fight me sally im still bitter) and the melan was wonderful imo. yes ok i made some embellishments but i really did like the poison aesthetic, it super fit. And then years later, the mega arrived, and i screamed a lot. because megapede!!!!!!!! and with it brought a revamp to my babies. and look what they did: And i love them even more! theyre a lot more unique (because black + neon is soooo original :L yep) and it fits them perfectly. they even fixed whirlipede (which iirc was the same colours as the other two? it didnt work right, deffo needed fixing) and made the albinos better. to this it clearly had a huge amount of thought put into it; this isn't skin or fur, it's chitin, how do we make that look right? ok what about the eyes? the claws? the bits that aren't solid shell? and it came out the other side better for it. i feel the same way about zizgagoon, and anorith, and a lot of the pokemon ive hunted before and after the revamps. im not trying to say they're all going to be winners. personally i feel the markings on albino scolipede are a bit dull, and other sprites are a bit off. But on the whole, 95% of the time, i've loved the changes, and been excited to see them. The staff work very hard to make whats good even better. theyre not just putting in hours because they feel like making a change; theyre systematically trying to upgrade the less cohesive older work and even go back and fix things theyve already tweaked as they learn from experience. My point with this long ramble is this: it's ok to dislike stuff, i get that not every new sprite is going to be to your liking. but to see how GREAT most of the changes have been and STILL sit back and cower away from a possible improvement before you've even seen it? makes no sense to me. yes, surprise updates are jarring, but on the whole they've felt necessary to me. Some sprites were just plain ugly (vulpix included), and yes the first revamp didnt work, but now? it looks so good i might even want to hunt it some day By all means, give constructive feedback. tell people what doesnt seem to work. theyre human, they cant just plop out perfect sprite after perfect sprite after all. but be open to change! be willing to wait and see how it pans out! and above all else, don't you DARE just lash out and complain without good reason. telling someone its bad or that you could do better is never helpful, and in the worst case? youre just making your point look bad. the best way to get what you want is to be nice! if some jerk told me my commission looked like garbage? id just kick em out of my shop and tell em not to come back. the art staff are a lot more patient and they dont even get paid. stop being mean to these angels and start looking at ways to help them instead.

I do agree that at some point, things should be left alone and "finished". I think going back and fixing issues, such as a misplaced shine or such is fine when its noticed, but at some point, the colors should just left be- at least in my opinion. Efit: I do think most revamps have been for the better as well but its when things get revamped a few number of times I start to lose it a lil'. I guess its my thought process of "it was revamped before. Why again?" Y'know?