It has now been 10 months since the Original S/A/M/D updates and the "Overbuffed" Melans threads have been made so I'd like to propose a revist to the rates since Niet even stated/hinted at in his very first post of both threads that he would possibly revist the rates depending on the data. I do want to point out here that I am not asking for the rates to be returned to their previous odds, I am only suggesting that Niet revist the rates; specifically the rates on days WITHOUT a hatching bonus counter active. I understand why the rates were changed in the first place but I'm hoping there might be a middle ground from current rates and previous rates. Positive Points

• DP market could possibly florish with the new DP rates and an influx of new specials.
• Could bring more users to the site because the Albino/Melan/Delta and all Special Deltas are uniquie to the site
• would make the userbase feel a little more heard when it comes to their opinions
• Would actually make Melans feel a little more rare because more and more users have found that they get early melans and once they got past about 1k hatches they hardly see Melans again
• Would make Z-Crystals more effective which would make thier price more expensive for market growth

Negative Points

• Melans would be harder to achieve than what they currently are therefore increasing the price and value
• The more albinos and shinies there are would mean the ability for DP Hunters to have more chances to spend their currency and buy the extra specials
• One of the original reasons for the change was to make the current amounts of all Shiny/Albino pokemon more valuable and therefore easier to sell, that didn't happen so having more might decrease the common Delta Point price and make them actually valuable.

Other Points/Suggestions

• A site wide poll posted in the news tab to see what the overall site thoughts are would be nice because not everyone understands how the forums work on site yet or might not want to publicly post but would vote to still have their opinion heard.
• I see there have been a few threads that mention something similar but not exactly this point here. Exp. 1 Exp. 2 Exp. 3 Exp. 4 These examples show a common idea but not the exact same idea. The common goal being to have the rates at least relooked at if not readjusted in general. I'm not fully asking for the rates to be back to what they were before any changes, I'm asking for just a reevaluation.

Again, I just want the rates to be re-examined if nothing else, not a complete rework or reversion.

Personally I'm ok with current shiny rate as a hypermode and ubercharm user (1/200) but albino rate seems a little too low outside typerace or using z-crystals. I always charge my albino radar to level 7 every day when I'm playing becouse I'm active and naturally gain the needed interaction points but lately I have been wondering if I should just buy albino radars with my points, sell those for credits and buy what ever albinos I wan't to get becouse the rates are so low without z-crystal or typerace but at the same time albino prices are kinda low too. Albinos have always been my "price" for being active, for spending time on the site and helping others to hatch their eggs too but they don't feel like they are anymore. What comes to melans I'm ok with the rates but kinda would wish a little better chances with longer chains.

Thing is, uber charm doesn't even boost the shiny rate anymore. It only boosts the melanistic rate now. I'm agreeing with this suggestion though. I shouldn't be getting constant early melans compared to chains being 3k+ and not getting anything in them even though I'm hunting with every single boost possible. Most of the time when I use a z-crystal now, I don't get albinos and I barely get any shinies anymore. It shouldn't be like this especially when both HM and Uber Charm increased in price. With the Uber Charm, I'd love if it boost the shinies. Not saying the rates should go back to how they were before, but at least increase the S/A rate again.

yeah the rates are painful now, z crystals have felt pretty useless since the changes... delta point market is dropping more and more as people fall out of love with the site and don't care enough to delta hunt melans just... aren't worth hunting most of the time, the price on the whole has dropped for melanistics because of the crash in delta point prices - there's suggestions for changing melan delta point rates which have been, like most suggestions, ignored and left to rot.

I have taken a look at the stats on this, and I do want to say you made a very good point about "non-bonus" days. Even seemingly unrelated bonuses have a surprisingly strong impact on special rates for the day as the "average user" shifts more towards hunters on those days. So, considering only non-bonus days, it looks like the overall global rate is about 1/200 for Shinies, and 1/250-300 for Albinos, which is roughly where I think it should be for a global average. The "global average" doesn't necessarily tell the whole story, of course, since most players aren't hunters, but it's important to consider the global average all the same as that determines the overall rarity of things, and therefore their relative value. With regard to Melans, it is very difficult to gauge them as they are very rare indeed - somewhere between 1/3000 and 1/5000 depending on fluctuations in randomness. I must, however, dispute the "early Melan" argument - just because someone gets lucky doesn't mean the odds are broken. If "early Melans" were a problem, there'd be a lot more than 1/3000 of them. I don't really know what to say in response to "z-crystals feeling pretty useless". It's a 1.5x boost for 3 days, which is quite significant. If it's not being felt, maybe it needs to be looked at, but it's definitely working as intended - I even double-checked the code, just to be safe! So, thank you for bringing this up, but at this time I feel like things are okay the way they are. I'm open to more specific suggestions, whether that's about individual experience or the "global average" I mentioned above, but for right now: I have reviewed it, it looks OK to me. "More specific suggestions" could, perhaps, make use of the Raw Data I made available (and which I used for my "review"). Maybe make some spreadsheets to illustrate a point, that sounds like it might be fun! I do kind of wish I could provide more specific data, like individual hunt stats, but this is kind of the best that the current system can offer - definitely my fault since I didn't anticipate the need for Timeline data to be anything other than human-readable, so the system can't really handle it (sheer volume is a problem too, lots of eggs!). Sorry about that - hindsight is helpful! I'll leave this thread in Suggestions for now - if I move it to Completed you wouldn't be able to post in it any more, so it'd be premature to move it even if I personally consider the review "completed". As written the suggestion was just for me to review it, and that is done, but I get the feeling there's more to talk about :)

I first want to say thank you Niet for your quick response and review of the rates. I really appreciate you being on top of a suggestion such as this one which will have an effect on the community as a whole. Secondly, I would like to know more about what types of personal hunt data you would be willing to accept to maybe reconsider the rates for better or for worse even to the tiniest degree. Such as do you want varied data on the types of eggs and their hatch rates or do you want varied data on the users and what they do to increase every chance they get on eggs? Lastly, I'd like to pose a question/mini suggestion inside of this one? Not necessarily a proper suggestion or else I'd make a new thread. But anyways, is there a way to maybe have Sally catch the albino data on a group of users who consent to that? Not sure how much the system can handle since you said yourself This is a graph I have based on the raw site data that was provided for just the albino hatches with and without the bonus counters active. I did not seperate the hatch/nonhatch related bonuses for ease. I also threw the total number of melans hatched that month in for the talk about melans. This was just supposted to be a small graph to help give reference of the numbers for everyone.

Here to offer my support. I'd like for the shiny and albino rates to be revised- if anything just a smidge higher. I'm not asking for the rates to be what they were before - The over saturation of specials and melans especially was definitely terrible for the economy of the website. But I dislike the fact that ( for example on this specific hunt ) I am at 490 eggs. I have gotten 5 shinies and 2 whole darn albinos. I have all the available buffs, but feel like they're there just for show. 98 eggs for each shiny and 245 eggs for each albino is just abysmal. Yes, I know with shinies the rates within the radar are not a guarantee. I know official percentage of rates were never revealed because people would see it as a "oh if it's this percent I should get it after this many eggs!" I know RNG is fickle and different for everyone. I'm just going by my personal experience as this applied for me with my H. Sneasel hunt as well. I'd go well over a hundred eggs or more without any sort of special to be seen ( in 7k eggs I got 63 Albinos. My rate of shinies were better due to long chain and all that ). I know that this sounds like a "oh you're just supporting for yourself" in a way, but I'm just providing my experience to go with this suggestion. I've seen many others become disheartened with the rates as well. I know it's incredibly difficult to find that *just right* balance, I was within Staff trying to help discuss with the rest of the team. Hopefully something can be sorted out in the future. <3 edit: I'm at a 570 chain. Ratio is 1:195 for Albinos, and 1:114 for shinies. I've hatched 1 albino since making this post. edit 2: it's been 445 eggs since my last shiny.

Support. I think with the old market these rates would be good, but with the new ways to trade and use DP, the special rates really bottleneck the market from utilizing DP as much.

Not sure if it's early or any time frame for these so bump? I'll come back and bump in roughly a weekish I guess?

Totally up for a revisit Albinos seem waaaayyyy harder now and it feels like im wasting max charges to get nothing out of them majority of the time Really my only issue with current rates Shinies are super easy Special deltas and melans are still quite difficult (but keeps their rarity so im fine with this) If not a revisit, maybe a 24hr charge time (non refundable if boosting like it is now) for albino radar Makes it a bit better to time for those who are busy, and may remove the feeling of charges being wasted