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Kodiyak's AvatarKodiyak
Kodiyak's Avatar
@Camwoodstock; The shop isn't "useless", it doesn't have a purpose to be implemented at the moment. Why have an entire page dedicated to only Evolution items? Selling can already be done through the inventory, and accessories will be sellable at the Contest Hall. (If I read that correctly on it's page.) And now, a few responses to your issues:

To make the post shorter. :)

> If you compare the amount of Pokemon that evolve through other means than evolution items, it's quite a big difference. As well as the fact that there are more than a few people who hoard more than one species of Pokemon, which allows them to grow a hoard that they wouldn't have spent as much time on. > All of the staff members are volunteer, they know that things will change. Just like how the egg sprites have changed, and how many Albino and Melanistic sprites are being made/updated. I believe that those shop doors were made by Novan-Chan(?
Sorry if I got this wrong!
), and they are meant to be temporary, it was to say, "Hey, the shop is coming soon!" > Even if you are 'banned' from the forums and trades, you did something to break the rules. It's your fault for not following them... > Evolution stones are in A shop, not multiple shops in the the games. > The staff isn't telling anyone to do their work, why would someone willing to sell their evolution items be dictated by the staff? It's the users choice to do so. > There are Scour Boosts for a reason, and they are easy to get on a Ledah Day with a GP Discount and clicking to get GP on FabuFridays.
@EmeraldSpencer; That's a good idea! I think that PF1 was similar to that? Every day the shop would swap out its evolution item stock. Correct me if I'm wrong on that, it's pretty vague now. >w<"
RedPhobos's AvatarRedPhobos
RedPhobos's Avatar
Hopefully your Zorua comment in the video wasn't in response to my post? D: All I did was ask why it was blue since I've always noticed that but never knew or asked. :P I like the explanation, though. It's clever! Edit: Actually...from what I saw in the thread, it didn't seem that anyone was complaining about Zorua's egg. They were just asking. :\
Avatar artwork by Souichirou Gunjima, originally intended as artwork for the Pokemon TCG game. source image found on Pkmncards.net. Want a similar Pokemon fusion design and sprite? Head over to my Fusion Lab!
Constantine's AvatarConstantine
Constantine's Avatar
@EmeraldSpencer; aye, it would indeed be better off as a suggestion! Move it there~
♔ Fae King Give me equality.
Rokon's AvatarRokon
Rokon's Avatar
Out of curiousity... Why were you two making that video on a walk? owo Where were you even going? Anyways, super excited for all this stuff coming up!! <3 And congratulations on completing the recode, Niet!
cee - he/she/they - 21 icon from Rachel and Jun youtube sig sprite by me stoked sparksurfer! everything i post is to be read in the flattest voice possible

long quote

QUOTE originally posted by Camwoodstøck

I'm sorry, but I REALLY don't like this idea that the shop is "useless" because of user trade shops, and I'm sick of having to hold back my stress about this topic. • People who hoard Pokemon that evolve via evolution stones are officially screwed now that there's no such thing as bulk purchases. • The art staff's work on the shop doors for when it was simply down for renovating? It's all rendered moot now. All that effort is simply wasted. Imagine putting your heart and soul into something and the person who told you to make it tore it to shreds with no reaction. You'd be upset! • It's now possible to be banned from the shop. Not just via shop blacklists, no. I mean, trade bans & forum bans now make it IMPOSSIBLE to buy the shop. So now, you can feasibly be banned fom what was a core mechanic. And god forbid you run a shop, too; you can feasibly be banned from your own shop now. And that would just be cruel irony back in pre-recode or PF1, but now that the official shop is branded "useless" in favor of these, it really, really stings. • Don't want to buy from a shop? You're forced to pray to RNGsus that that scour mission brings back an evolution item, or a box with one inside. And if you didn't get the one you wanted, you're forced to wait for an entire hour before even having a chance. • The argument that it being there for people who don't like interactions being a bad argument... is a bad argument; social anxiety is a serious issue, but the difference between interracting for a shop and interracting with someone's Pokemon is you don't need to approach that person personally to even interract with them. They are two vastly different things, one of which is one that dones't require triggering social anxieties by approaching someone directly and having to write them a message asking if you can buy something from them. And I sincerely hope you can tell which one that is. • Saying it's more "fun" is also absurd. Imagine if in the regular games, you could only find Potions in the item balls in the overworld, or via Pickup, and the Pokemarts were entirely gone. It'd be misery! You'd be forced to know someone who plays the game, or buy a different copy and possibly a new game system that can play it, just in the pursuit of extra potions, and thusly, to even play the game properly. What you find fun, others might find unbearable to have to do. •I get the idea of increasing awareness in trade shops, and I get the idea of increasing player-to-player activity, but forcing it is just a horrible way of going about it. And before you say trade evolutions already force player-to-player activity, that stuff usually doesn't require a payment of in-game items, and takes a mere trust exercise in strangers, and even if said stranger screws you over, you can actually report it. • No, evolution stones ARE in the shops in the games, so don't say they weren't. Celadon city did this explicitly since without a merchant in the games to sell the evolution stones, they would become finite items and it'd be possible to screw yourself out of a maximum PokeDex, even with both games and 2 consoles, provided you burnt all your evolution stones of one type on one evolution when you didn't have the other one's evolution. • While it's likely not intentional, it REALLY comes off as a blatantly telling people who run these shops to do the work for the staff. Again, I don't think that's what the message was meant to be, but it REALLY comes off as though the staff is forcing people who own these trade shops to be the ones to sell these items, as opposed to having to create a recoded shop. • And it wouldn't even be so bad if evolution items were common as dirt. If you got them easily through boxes or scours, or you purchased them from the Lab or Wishforge, I might be less obligated to complain. But no such luck; they're still rare/you get a wonderful reward of a 1-4 berries, or even worse, nothing. This entire idea of removing the shop does nothing positive, and everything it does hurts the game for everybody in some fashion. I guess I can understand some of the logic to it, but the thing is that that logic is completely flawed in my opinion.
I 100% agree with this! How can you guys claim the recode is complete when there's no shop!?
~Credit for my lovely new avatar goes to AnonymousEspeon~

QUOTE

People who hoard Pokemon that evolve via evolution stones are officially screwed now that there's no such thing as bulk purchases.
I just have one question - Since when were there ever "bulk purchases"? You could just buy them and that was the end of it, right? At least, so far as I know. Also, I want to note that we never said they're not coming back in other regards. It would appear that you have assumed that to be the case and I would just like to note that this is wrong on your part. This fact kind of nullifies any point you were attempting to make. Please avoid making assumptions. They are only liable to cause problems for you.

QUOTE

The art staff's work on the shop doors for when it was simply down for renovating? It's all rendered moot now. All that effort is simply wasted. Imagine putting your heart and soul into something and the person who told you to make it tore it to shreds with no reaction. You'd be upset!
I want to ask you something. Why are you trying to speak for someone who is completely fine with it? Allow me to show you Sei's response to your statement: "You don't get to tell me or Novie or any of the other artists what to get offended about" Couldn't have worded that better myself, honestly :)

QUOTE

It's now possible to be banned from the shop. Not just via shop blacklists, no. I mean, trade bans & forum bans now make it IMPOSSIBLE to buy the shop. So now, you can feasibly be banned fom what was a core mechanic. And god forbid you run a shop, too; you can feasibly be banned from your own shop now. And that would just be cruel irony back in pre-recode or PF1, but now that the official shop is branded "useless" in favor of these, it really, really stings.
The only way that remotely comes true is if the person in question deserves to have their access to that feature locked. It's part of the punishment of breaking the rules - and it was on PF1, too. I'm not really seeing the point you're trying to make here, if I'm honest... I mean - please don't get me wrong, but from what I'm understanding, you're complaining that people who break the rules get punished? ...I can't make sense of that complaint. Genuinely.

QUOTE

Don't want to buy from a shop? You're forced to pray to RNGsus that that scour mission brings back an evolution item, or a box with one inside. And if you didn't get the one you wanted, you're forced to wait for an entire hour before even having a chance.
For now, at least. We're still in development and this thread is exact proof of that. We're not done entirely. We're done with the recode. I am going to run under the impression that you understand this. If you do understand this... Why would you come out with these statements that are full of aggression? ...To me, all this says is that you don't understand - and if you don't understand... Doesn't that hinder any points that you would be attempting to make? It's mostly that you're talking in definitives - as though... "this is it", when it's not. If you dropped that and were instead asking if this is it, in this situation that we are presently in... You'd probably be much better received, to be honest. Instead, I'm not going to lie, you come off... Like you're just looking for an argument. A fight. That's not a pretty look to have, I'm sure you agree.

QUOTE

The argument that it being there for people who don't like interactions being a bad argument... is a bad argument; social anxiety is a serious issue, but the difference between interracting for a shop and interracting with someone's Pokemon is you don't need to approach that person personally to even interract with them. They are two vastly different things, one of which is one that dones't require triggering social anxieties by approaching someone directly and having to write them a message asking if you can buy something from them. And I sincerely hope you can tell which one that is.
I appreciate the concepts of social anxiety, being the enjoyer of social anxiety myself. To a lesser degree than some, sure - I push through it the best I can. Either way... This is a social game. That's... Kind of the end of it. It's an MMO. If you can't handle dealing with other people, have you perhaps joined the wrong kind of game for you? I'm sorry, but at that point, it kind of feels like you're purposely joining the wrong kind of game. Again, I'm sorry... But whose fault is that other than your own? If you've joined a game that is specifically focused around interacting with the general community... And then you're complaining that you have to interact with the general community? ...How does that make any sense? At the end of the day, we're not going to change the entire type of game that we're running here because someone doesn't like it. So it's not your kind of game - that's fine! Really~ Not everyone is going to enjoy things and we acknowledge that... Why can't you? If you want a tailor-made game you have two options - do it yourself or hire someone to do it for you. ( Well. A third option would be "hope it gets made" but then we're pushing boundaries that I don't want to consider ^^ ) Otherwise, I'm sorry. We're doing the best we can with our vision. Some would claim we're doing a good job - others won't. And that, again, is completely fine. On a side-note - criticism / feedback gets taken way better when you're not being aggressive. Grab a cool glass of water or something to soothe your hot head before you speak to others. Not gonna lie, I had to. I don't take kindly to aggressive people - especially not when they're objectively wrong (because what's being said is not our end-game and is something we're already in the process of fixing).

QUOTE

Saying it's more "fun" is also absurd. Imagine if in the regular games, you could only find Potions in the item balls in the overworld, or via Pickup, and the Pokemarts were entirely gone. It'd be misery! You'd be forced to know someone who plays the game, or buy a different copy and possibly a new game system that can play it, just in the pursuit of extra potions, and thusly, to even play the game properly. What you find fun, others might find unbearable to have to do.
Why are you trying to make a comparison to the regular games? This... Isn't the regular games here. Nothing near. Your comparison is a completely moot point. It's like trying to compare an RPG to a First-person shooter to state which is doing "the same thing" right. It makes no sense, does it? "Yeah well RPGs do stat-growth better". "It's an FPS... There is no stat-growth. What on earth are you on about."

QUOTE

I get the idea of increasing awareness in trade shops, and I get the idea of increasing player-to-player activity, but forcing it is just a horrible way of going about it. And before you say trade evolutions already force player-to-player activity, that stuff usually doesn't require a payment of in-game items, and takes a mere trust exercise in strangers, and even if said stranger screws you over, you can actually report it.
The trading aspect is a staple of the games - not much we can do there. However, we've never once said we're trying to increase awareness of player shops, nor have we attempted to increase player-to-player activity. Things are still things on-going, as I've already said. As aforementioned, we're still not done yet~

QUOTE

No, evolution stones ARE in the shops in the games, so don't say they weren't. Celadon city did this explicitly since without a merchant in the games to sell the evolution stones, they would become finite items and it'd be possible to screw yourself out of a maximum PokeDex, even with both games and 2 consoles, provided you burnt all your evolution stones of one type on one evolution when you didn't have the other one's evolution.
Yeah, sure. I'll cop to that. You're right. They did have that. But you know what the regular games didn't have? Scours or boxes - or around 5,000 active users on the same game each day all with the chance of finding these things. Then we come back to the trade issue that you mentioned. For now~ If I have to say we're still in development I'm going to need a milkshake. :P

QUOTE

While it's likely not intentional, it REALLY comes off as a blatantly telling people who run these shops to do the work for the staff. Again, I don't think that's what the message was meant to be, but it REALLY comes off as though the staff is forcing people who own these trade shops to be the ones to sell these items, as opposed to having to create a recoded shop.
According to who, exactly? What reputable source? I don't even know what job any user would be doing by running a shop. We... We don't sell those items. That's not us. I don't. What. ...What? I'm not deleting any of this. This is legitimately my thought pattern. I. I don't. What. What are you trying to say? We want our users to be our "shop"? If that was the case then... Why do we have a bunch of the other items on their relevant pages? Why wouldn't we have everyone sell those too? You. What. What? I can't. I need my milkshake. I can't get my mlkshake - the store is closed... Shaking milk doesn't count.

QUOTE

And it wouldn't even be so bad if evolution items were common as dirt. If you got them easily through boxes or scours, or you purchased them from the Lab or Wishforge, I might be less obligated to complain. But no such luck; they're still rare/you get a wonderful reward of a 1-4 berries, or even worse, nothing.
For now. Oh my blue fluffy butt. Do I have to say it again. I don't want to. I can't get a milkshake. I said I wanted a milkshake if I had to say it again. That's it. I'm going to wake Niet up. I want a milkshake. He shall be the provider. I don't care how we get it! Milkshake! (strawberry) Really though - and joking all aside~ :P Where have we ever said "we're done", eh? "We're done with the recode" Yes! We said that. Absolutely. The recode isn't the end of things!. I hate to say it but you sound like one of those "doom-sayers". You're talking in definitives, like we've said that nothing else is ever gonna be done when it's the exact opposite. In fact, I've eluded to the fact that you'll be able to get stones in other ways repeatedly. Let me quote something at you from our announcement of the recode thread -

QUOTE

Now, due to the nature of the recode, and the fact that many features are being cleaned up and rewritten
Let me reiterate. "Many features are being cleaned up and rewritten". Again. We're not done, Yeah? It will be made easier to get them. Believe me, we're aware that they're not super easy to get right now and that's gonna be worked on. Nowhere did we say otherwise ( so you can stop acting like we did, now :P ). We're just working on things bit by bit - because. You know. one programmer.. One. Niet's not some un-sleeping beast who lives on coffee and sugar pills ( so much more would be done if that were the case! XD ). He needs his sleeps and his time to think and concoct how things will work. Don't get me wrong. It's not all him, obviously - but my point is that even if the idea isn't his, he still has to make it work. Properly. That takes time, funnily enough ;) Talking out as though it's something we're not going to address or as though this is our final avenue is... Naíve. And very. Very. Wrong. I appreciate that there are a few problems right now - but we're not done. If there was something I have missed, then I'm sorry - but you only have your own aggression, your own attempts to speak for other people, your own false claims and your own "definitive" statements to blame. If there's anything that you would like answered, please don't hesitate to ask. I'm happy to answer~

QUOTE originally posted by Houndoom Heart

I 100% agree with this! How can you guys claim the recode is complete when there's no shop!?
Easily. Just did it. ;) I can't answer you seriously when you have already proven that you have an aversion to listening. When you, as a person, are willing to listen, you'll be answered properly. Not before.
LadyElemental's AvatarLadyElemental
LadyElemental's Avatar
This is going to likely sound creepy. Niet's even told me as such before. But I love you guys. And I love you Garth. So much. I agree with you. Evolution items/stones...they were never easy to get in any of the games. But this isn't like the games. Not at all. It is a lot more relaxing. And I'd gladly make you a milkshake Garth. I know you *probably* live in Britain, but Steak-n-Shake's milkshakes are amazing and have a ton of variety. And even with the 'slow' moving forward in the recode, I enjoyed it. It was fun waiting, and being surprised with whatever Niet came up next. I look forward to playing on here for a looooooong time. And thanks for explaining the banned from shop thing a bit more. (Although I still don't properly understand it. Eh.)
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Morzone's AvatarMorzone
Morzone's Avatar

QUOTE originally posted by Morzone

Is it correct to assume the contests are in the same stage as battling, fishing, and the dojo are? As in it's still a thing, but isn't going to be compeleted at a time relevant enough to still be part of the recode?
*cautiously peeks out now that the arguing over the shop is over* Sorry if this feels kind of redundant, considering you keep saying the recode isn't the end of things, but I just wanted to make sure since it hasn't been mentioned yet
At least not after the video was posted, I only searched back that far in the thread, sorry
.
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Mystera's AvatarMystera
Mystera's Avatar
Oh good grief. No one needs 500 fire stones. I am a Vulpix hoarder, and while I keep every fire stone I get my hands on, I would not want to spend all my credits on evolving my hoard. I'm fine with just having Vulpix. Don't use us as your defense please. I'm still waiting for that dungeon feature Noot mentioned in a livestream to get made. It sounded fun.

QUOTE originally posted by Morzone

QUOTE originally posted by Morzone

Is it correct to assume the contests are in the same stage as battling, fishing, and the dojo are? As in it's still a thing, but isn't going to be compeleted at a time relevant enough to still be part of the recode?
*cautiously peeks out now that the arguing over the shop is over* Sorry if this feels kind of redundant, considering you keep saying the recode isn't the end of things, but I just wanted to make sure since it hasn't been mentioned yet
At least not after the video was posted, I only searched back that far in the thread, sorry
.
Pretty much. Sorry about that. They're going to be coming along as we get things done~ ^^ Fishing is going to be coming along pretty soon because it's necessary to complete the Dex once Gen 7 comes out, so we legitimately need that to be done. Dojo needs to be done thereafter to train up Pokémon you'd use in the fishing... Mmh.. Yeah, I don't know the order, but I'm sure you get the point.

QUOTE originally posted by Mystera

Don't use us as your defense please.
Or perhaps a better way to put it? "Don't use other people as your defense. They can speak for themselves. They do not need you to speak for them. They are perfectly capable." Yiss?

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