First of all, i had already apologized for my tone and that english is not my first language,and you still complain that im being 'border-line toxic'. But I have to say this, arent you the one thats being slightly toxic? I mean, you brought up my melan count,called my opinions and criticism a 'tired argument' and also called it 'laughable'???im sorry you feel that way, but there really is no adding to the argument if you dont even see it as a problem and make fun of it in the process. And for my ocean token comment? I was just joking, just because i decided to give my opinion about a sprite, does this mean i have wavered my right to comment somewhere else? And for you going through my pokedex to see how many melans have i owned, i think its appropriate for me to explain to you why i only have two. 1: I took a long hiatus and never really properly hunted. 2:When i did come back, my plans to hunt them were gone because the sprites were changed to something I did not like. before someone brings up css, it isnt a solution. Css is a FREE cosmetic. Melans are cosmetic that COST money.(ZC is always bought by someone, even if you trade for it)so melans in a way are a big source of revenue for the site. Changing the sprite to something unlikeable is the site shooting itself in the foot. If you'd like to present a graph that show how many people comment how much they like it VS to upvotes on the displeasure on the changes, then the graph will be in favour of displeasure. Most people are very shy and/or don't like using the forums for whatever reason on this site (including me, you have no idea how much strength i mustered up to type my first comment on the thread and this is how you treat me.) Also that last paragraph??? I do not understand. Are you trying to imply my taste is bad or something? Again, im just, trying to address that im not trying to be toxic and would like to engage is some discussion about the sprite update,yet you're being rude.

So real quick - There's always been plenty of warning, we've never been quiet about doing this and we have announced it. To say we haven't or not enough warning is given is not a fair argument because at this point we've given years worth of 'warning'. I acknowledge it's taken a long time and people will have forgotten or will not have seen it said - that does not mean that it has not been said. You can find proof of that here. I think the issue is less that no warning was given - because evidently, factually, there was. I think it's more to do with the lack of visibility of it since the Changelog was archived though I will note the same claims were made even when it wasn't archived, so... Make of that what you will, I suppose. ...It used to be appended to the "Changelog" but we've since stopped using that. It may be a good idea to link this in the Announcements as a result of that, come to think of it. If this seems like a good idea then I'll do that post-haste. We have proven time and time again that we're willing to listen to feedback by making changes (as we are doing with this recent update as well, by the way) based on that very feedback. To proclaim otherwise is simply blatantly incorrect because we are actively making alterations at this time (and it has been said as much!) - the same as we have done in the past, no less (This is the kind of thing Niet was referring to when he said 'based on provable falsehoods'). Long story short, if heeding peoples' thoughts and making changes based on the feedback given isn't "listening"... Then I don't know what is. I will also note that "listening" doesn't mean to follow every whim put forth. You can disagree with someone's thoughts but still have listened to them, so please don't conflate the two concepts. I do somewhat agree with Niet in that claiming the loud minority is "the majority" isn't exactly the most reasonable thing to do (or in his poor explanation 'toxic', of which I feel is incorrect). We get a number of people talking to us outside of the forums because they feel beaten down / beaten back by the users who proclaim their dislike. That said, I don't think that it warranted such a response from him. I do think that Niet's response was somewhat toxic in and of itself and did make mention to him that it was... Not a good idea. Nonetheless, I decided to allow him to make his own mistakes and to see what would come of it. It's evident that he was frustrated and I will be talking with him about this to see what exactly led to this issue for him. His point about 'consistent themes' and your comment was that we have our rules to follow for how the art/sprites are done - you're welcome to object to that, but either way that's not the point. You then made a comment guessing the names of the upcoming tokens showing a clear understanding of 'consistent themes' through your guesswork. The point was that "We are following those rules and they are consistent - to proclaim otherwise is simply false. I'm sorry that you don't like them." in essence, but he made that point very, very poorly. I will note that he has shown that the colours people claimed were 'Common' actually weren't through a colour analysis graph. It was self-admittedly a crude one but it worked and showed that the claims that some people are making about the colour-usage in Albinos and Melans are demonstrably false. [Citation 1] [Citation 2] I don't agree with him bringing up the unnecessary points that he did. There were points in there but they were negligable, at best, and almost picking a fight, at worst. I won't apologise on Niet's behalf because that would be insincere, I wanted to make a few comments and let it be known that I am talking with him about this.

Just going to put things in a hidebox to cut down on the "size" of the post/for other people's convenience Also I do think that having the Changelog thingie Garthic were talking about linked to announcements is a good idea. I joined the site sometime after whatever hullabaloo there was about the Hoenn revamps died down, but before the Sinnoh revamps got pushed out, and I had no idea that there was any sort of sprite revamp going on and that the albino and melan colors were going to change. Obviously it doesn't affect me as much cause I'm still going to try and do a living shiny/albino dex, but I can understand why a lot of people who maybe were in a similar situation that I was in got upset about it and/or weren't aware that the change was gonna happen.

i didn't even realize this post was here but i will add my mostly positive 2 cents <3 i love like 99% of the revamps! they make everything look way more cohesive and overall I think that's very positive on both the site and the artists' behalf being able to make everything look nice together when there's literally hundreds of sprites. while every update may not be to my personal tastes (goodnight very burnt pizza (melan spiritomb) hello moderately less burnt pizza, in the end it makes things looks nice overall... im just gonna repeat myself more if i say things here. my only question is now, shiny rotom has the same aura for all of its sprites, and so does the melan (which used to be different, but i'll live), so can I ask why only the albinos (besides normal rotom obv) have different color auras? honestly just curious.

Because Albinos aren't Shiny.

thanks for your reply. :-)

So I completely forgot / had no idea that this thread was still active. Just read through it and I... well... pretty confused! Many people dislike the new changes. No one (who's comments are still up) seems outright hostile about them. Some people have a ruder tone because they feel they've been igonored. Okay. Then we get this Niet post seemingly bonking polite users for their "vile toxicity". I outloud laughed when seeing this, because I was so confused at what he was refering too? Cele's post a few posts later explained that there were deleted posts, edited posts, posts in other threads, PMs, an so on. But that just... confused me more -- why did Niet respond to this thread when we are completely unaware of those people, and all evidence of it is out of our sight? It just looks, bad? Makes users who are being as patient and polite about feeling as if they're ignored just feel like they got randomly bonked. Weird choice. Thise Niet post too was just... very confusing? The few users' posts before this didn't seem inflamatory. Just disagreeing. Very simmilar tones to the rest of the 10 pages. And then Niet makes (another) very upset, bonk-like post towards these users. Huh? He even admits that he doesn't answer us because our posts just "arent worth his time" or "arent worth answering" Like, damn, really makes me feel like I want to contribute to the community discussion when the admin admits he doesn't value me or my peer's comments. All the times I've been ignored not answered on other threads suddenly feels much more sour. I do also appreciate Garthic letting us know that this is just Niet being mean and not them all condoning it. Weird, but, genuinely did appreciate it. Anyways, I just wanted to pop in and mention how weird this thread was, mention that I disagree with how it was handled, as usual, and say yet again that I think a PR person or team would be so incredibly sexy for this game <3

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Now on terms of the actual topic! I really do love all the updated sprite work! There were a lot of inconsistencies in terms of shading, pokemon anatomy, etc, and pfq's art team did a fantastic job streamlining it and making it all look consistent and professional. I'll never stop being amazed at that. Recolor wise; The albinos look wonderful! Of course they aren't all to my tastes, but that's to be expected. I love the diversity of light color palettes, and the willingness to move away from white/cream + red. It really makes them pop! The melans are the place of disagreement, as always. I'll admit that most of them aren't to my tastes. The specific deep green color used on a lot of melans (talking sinnoh specifically) is one of my least favorite colors, so I was disappointed to see how frequently it was utilized. (EDIT: after chatting in the pfq discord with other users + Shazi, it turns out that a lot of that "deep green" is actually blue on the color wheel! It just appears green to me. how odd!) I could go into detail about each line I dislike and why, but I honestly wonder if it's even worth it ; so much of it is my personal, subjective opinion, and I'm not sure if . literally anyone agrees. It would feel silly to post so much writing when its ONLY ME. Not sure! I might do it anyways later if i have the energy. I think the one think i will say, is that it feels like a good handful of the new sinnoh melans have a dark color scheme (purple/red/green/blue/etc) and then another random color thrown on top; but with it's saturation it ends up not looking great together. That comes from the pokemon it'self having a different contrasting color in that spot I believe, so I don't know what the best way to adjust that would be tbh. I'll admit i was a huge fan of "black/grey + one neon color" melans ahaha end note; keep up the great work artists! please remember that, for me at least, my critiques on colors have much to do with the decisions of colors and not the quality of the sprites. the sprites and the talent put into them is incredible as always. the decision making for what colors go where is what i question :P