Sinnoh sprite revamp

Where do you see this toxic backlash? Most of the people just politely critizited why they are unhappy with the changes because they care about this site. The word "hate" is not toxic, people genuinely dislike some of the changes and they weren't able to think of other words. I agree that communication should be better - I joined this site at the beginning of this year, and never even heard of sprite revamps - just beacause you mention it in some obscure forum posts, or outside of the site doesn't mean that everyone will hear about it.

Personally, I think a lot of the comments have been quite toxic in the way that they were phrased. Even if words weren't intended as an attack initially, many of them can be read in that way - and that has an effect on the people it's being aimed at. Intentional or not, it can still be harmful. Incidentally, there could easily be backlash that the general public are not aware of (PMs, etc).

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Well said, Niet. I hope the art team knows that not everyone hates the new sprites. As I said, I, personally, think they look amazing. Y'all deserve aaaall the support~!

Constructive criticism is the keyword here. Saying things like I hate this or I love that isn't good critism. It's been said so many times that explaining what bothers you about the art helps the staff to rework on things if necessary. Was there something wrong with the colours, shading etc. Same thing with the positive feedback. What was good about the art? The staff wants feedback that actually helps them to understand the main subject of the issue. Let that be negative or positive. Next time you complain about colours, try to give more depth of why they bother you.

Hello there. I'll be stepping in on Niet's behalf for this response, with his permission, to help explain. Niet wanted to post something about a tone-analysis AI and its take on two different posts. We will provide two samples: One and Two. Bear in mind both of these are negative feedback in that both users dislike something; positive and negative in this instance only indicates how constructively they managed to express their thoughts. This AI found the first sample to have a subjectiveness that is rated 10% neutral and 90% polarized... polarized meaning that it is, in fact, made of subjective material; it is opinion-based. This is in and of itself not a horrible thing. You can have illogical reasoning for not liking something and still be able to express yourself in a way where the artists can take something from it, even if that's just, "This user does not like that colour." At the very least, "Many users do not like that colour," is something that can be gathered from enough instances of this type of criticism. However, this isn't where the analysis of this post ends. This AI then rates the opinion-based portions for being either positive or negative, which is self-explanatory. This sample was found to be 10% positive and 90% negative. So, in conclusion, the AI finds it to be opinion-based, unconstructive, and toxic in manner -- largely bashing. As a result, this kind of post is one that will largely be ignored because there's not much to be logically taken from it aside from, "I don't like it." On the other side of things, the second sample was found to be 70% positive despite being a post where the user dislikes the changes -- this is an example of constructive criticism. The dislike is expressed in such a way that the AI can tell that there is a logical point here to be had, and even though it's also more opinion-based, it's laid out where the artists can still take something from this post to work with. This person doesn't like certain colours. They praise the things they do like with specific sprites. And then they request transparency. This is all reasonable of them and we can take all of this information on board to consider going forward. How they said what they wanted to say was the important difference that made this post constructive by nature. The testaments of an AI aside, usually you are not going to see the more toxic statements because staff will quickly delete them or make edits so they're not what you see when you look at the post, and then speak to the user who posted it about being disrespectful in their criticism. It isn't just about the presence of or lack of profanity, to be clear. Comparisons have been made between sprites and actual body waste matter. You name the type of waste matter, we've heard a statement saying that this or that sprite looks like it. This is frankly not acceptable, and it's something that has occurred even in this thread -- not much in this thread, mind, but even once is more than enough. The fact that you haven't seen it just goes to show that the job was done and the disrespectful content is no longer there. Similar posts have been made elsewhere on the forums, and on a frequent enough basis that some artists have considered quitting. They like making the sprites, but the insults take their toll. For reference, I alone as a moderator have worked on two issues involving toxic criticism today alone -- and just got done discussing a potential third. One of these instances has been enough of an issue that I've been in talks with the user for a number of days now. This says nothing of how many other instances other moderators have encountered and handled, and how many demanding DMs artists get on Discord of why this or that sprite is a certain colour. You might ask if that really happens, and I can assure you that it does; people do indeed approach the artists in their private off-site DMs in order to demand answers about this. And they do so aggressively. So, in the kindest way possible, please do not make assumptions just because you see only the people who are being reasonable in their words.

Staff have every right to try and reduce the negativitity they read, but I have an issue with this statement in particular: This "ignoring" does not help. You get posts like the first one you linked because users are frustrated and feel like the staff are not listening to them. I would like to point out the number of thumbs up on those posts. The first example has 32, while the second one has 10 (at the time of posting this). Surely that speaks for itself? How many times have people said (whether it was constructively or not) that they are not a fan of these revamps? And all they get in response is "everything is going to be revamped because it doesn't fit in this system that we've arbitrarily created for ourselves" and nothing changes. We go through this every sprite revamp, surely the staff should know by now that a lot of people aren't fans of this system, as much as it is or isn't needed. While it sucks the amount of toxicity the artists get, and they should never be subjected to it, expecting everyone to do a review of why they don't like changes to a certain sprite is unrealistic. A lot of the time it's simply because they preferred the older version, and without the use of CSS those sprites are lost. For example, I don't like the new Sewaddle and Shinx melans. Why? Because I preferred the older versions, and if I didn't have CSS to change those, that's thousands of eggs out the window and who knows how many weeks/months of effort gone, which all I have to show for it are sprites I'm not really a fan of.

You literally took the thoughts from my brain there - including using the examples I would've used! Is there anything we can do to help the artists feel better about themselves and stuff? ;o; Or just help in general?? At the end of the day, if you can't say something in a way that's respectable and polite - then you shouldn't say anything at all. It's not the artist's fault if you, specifically, don't like the colours. If many people dislike the colours, changes and adjustments can be politely requested. This has been mentioned multiple times on this thread. However, getting frustrated and saying things such as 'This is the worst thing you could do' and 'I hate all of it, no matter what you do i'll hate it' - things that have been said on this thread - is simply uncalled for. When a child throws a tantrum because they can't have the best toy on the shelf, they get ignored and/or told they can't have it (usually). If they politely say, 'please can I have this toy?' they're more likely to get it (likely as a present at christmas). You don't get listened to by screaming. Being upset with the changes is fine - but try to channel that upset-ness into something constructive (like drawing, writing or trying to constructively think of a way that the problem could be fixed) - rather than something destructive (being angry and lashing out at the artists). In general, that's a healthier way of dealing with frustration - though I also know it's not the easiest thing to do. But heck, before I go on a long rant about mental health (and how to deal with it) I'll cut myself off there. As I said, at the end of the day, if you can't say something in a way that's respectable and polite - then you shouldn't say anything at all.

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Hope I'm not stepping on any moderator toes or anything by explaining things. I'm just trying to say it as I see it, but if you want me to shush I will! ^^

From Niet's own ability to view who upvotes what, and with my agreement due to what I've experienced while working for the site, we will say that the upvotes are heavily skewed. People largely *do not* upvote positive things they wish to reinforce (e.g. show artists what they do want), and heavily upvote damaging, negative, toxic things. As shown by the very votes you're indicating to me. Why would we listen to things that break our respect rules and only serve to make our artists want to quit? Why should they hasten to give their effort and time specifically to the people who cannot or are not willing to take the time to express themselves in a non-damaging manner? Between my previous post and my post here you essentially have a guide on how to be listened to, even if you don't wish to express praise. Upvoting a toxic post will not yield the result you want. I don't mean this to be unkind and I do not mean to compare users to children, but the act of humouring that behaviour is the exact practice that leads to children thinking that acting out is the best way to get what they want and humouring it only reinforces that it is acceptable when it is not. If you want to be listened to then being more toxic is not going to accomplish that. That's a quick way to being disregarded, or in the worst cases, removed from the site for violating our ToS. You can say you dislike something without being rude about it and that WILL be listened to whether or not you can explain what it is you do or do not like. A person's dislike of something is enough to go on - it's not super helpful, I admit, but it's completely valid. There are negotiable and non-negotiable parts of this process. The unnegotiable part is that sprites are being redone to increase the quality, and colours will indeed change as a result of that. This is something that we will not yield on, because the sprites are in rather dire need of it. You can see something I've written on that particular subject here (scroll down in that post to the response to Cyndalavosion). The negotiable part is what they look like in the end. If you don't like a result, go to the Sprite Discovery Discussion thread and leave us a post. If you want to know how you get listened to when you provide feedback, then do what the second post did. Show logic. What did you like? What didn't you like? Without making comparisons to excrement or other insults, why? Is it just a matter of your opinion, or is there a logic to it? Even if you're not capable of doing that because maybe you don't know what it is you don't like - or maybe you just can't express it right now but you still want to say something! Then that's fine and we encourage you to say something! "I dislike [sprite/s] and I'm unhappy that they were changed from what they were before" (very watered down, I admit, but the point is there) Suddenly we have what some of these posts boil down to, and look! Nothing rude or damaging! We can work with that.

Hello, want to put in my opinion. I appreciate the hard work the art team has done, and i kow its very hard but i simply for some really dont like the colors, as it hurts seeing the first melan i saved for being a shade of green instead of black. But i feel like there hasnt been warning, at least on the time ive been on the site. I also feel the quote "the initial designs of the melans are not good" is pretty biased, as i feel like staff should have a say, but i havent seen the community have any say of if it was not good or not. But one thing i feel like should be changed is the melans should be a blackish color, as even the star icon is a black color for the melans. As someone who has been saving for a melan, and seeing it just change is really crushing.I feel like the albinos have been getting less criticism, and i feel like the melans are the things the staff should focus on trying to improve so everyone can try to enjoy the new sprites.

Some of these revamps are excellent, some are not. Some of the new albinos are too dark in color and just look like alt shinys and some of the melans lose their charm when you try to avoid black. That being said, Im very happy to see some more variety in the albino sprites - getting red eyes and pink bases for a bunch of different pokemon got a bit old in my opinion.