Daycare Update 2024 plans
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I just want to point out that a few users have said they read the discord update and changed their perspectives. Not everyone has or wants to join the site discord. It feels very limiting to those who would rather not/can't/or whatever their reason is to not be able to see the same information as those who do join the discord. If only someone would actually make a news bulliten post with the discord updates so it's avalible site wide.
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QUOTE originally posted by InsaneMandii
I just want to point out that a few users have said they read the discord update and changed their perspectives. Not everyone has or wants to join the site discord. It feels very limiting to those who would rather not/can't/or whatever their reason is to not be able to see the same information as those who do join the discord. If only someone would actually make a news bulliten post with the discord updates so it's avalible site wide.
QUOTE originally posted by InsaneMandii
I just want to point out that a few users have said they read the discord update and changed their perspectives. Not everyone has or wants to join the site discord. It feels very limiting to those who would rather not/can't/or whatever their reason is to not be able to see the same information as those who do join the discord. If only someone would actually make a news bulliten post with the discord updates so it's avalible site wide.
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QUOTE originally posted by Niet
After sleeping on it, here are my thoughts.
Let's get the negatives out of the way first: I am disappointed.
As a community, I thought we were making such good progress. I provide clearer and more detailed posts, and in return I receive good, constructive and useful feedback to help improve things further. I wasn't the only one to notice this.
But yesterday was a dumpster fire. An absolute trainwreck. I spent six hours meticulously untangling my ancient code so that I could provide as full and complete and detailed information as I possibly could, and yet during the entire initial argument it didn't occur to anyone to open a calculator, punch in 0.8 * 1.38 * 1.2 * 0.84 and see that the result (1.113) is still higher than 1, therefore even with the worst possible V~Wave it was still a significant buff overall.
(It wasn't until much later in the discussion that anyone even considered the angle of some types being more drastically affected than others. That is a very valid point. Far more valid than "negative number bad".)
((Additional side-note: changing it to "just buff good types and leave bad matchups alone" is NOT a solution, since it is still a "penalty for not matching the type," just with different paint.))
Anyway, I'm going to make this simple: I'm removing the V~Wave influence from the plans.
This does, however, mean that the max chance of Twin Eggs now falls to 33% due to the loss of the "matching type" 1.2x bonus.
I see some demands (not requests, demands) for "why Natures?" to which I can very easily say "why not Natures?" but that's not an answer. Someone mentioned not understanding why "a food preference" should affect compatibility, but... that's not what a Nature is. Nature causes flavour preferences, not the other way around. As for the why, you can insert your own reasoning but I kinda like the concept that "shared interests" leads to better compatibility. Gameplay-wise, it adds more diversity in options available to the player, which is rarely a bad thing. Does it "penalise" you for preferring mixed pairs for personal "flavour" reasons? Sure, if you want to look at it that way, but I would argue that doing things for "flavour" reasons is always gonna be suboptimal in some way, and that's okay. I will also note that if I had made Nature a part of the compatibility calculations from the start, we wouldn't even be having this discussion, it would just be a "fact of life" on PFQ.
Regarding the Red Gigaremo, I feel that a lot of reactions are completely out of proportion, so let me just try to make this clearer: at base value, you pay one Gem to get 10 minutes of double breeding rate. I would be very surprised if in those 10 minutes you got fewer than let's say 5 eggs. (Maybe for some specific Exclusive/Variant eggs it might be harder, but remember that those are getting buffed 2.5x anyway). Even just those 5 eggs will give you 5 Gems (more on Ravyne bonus days) which more than pays for itself. The point of being able to choose what type of Gem to use was meant to allow some optimisation with regard to how Happiness drained when using the Gigaremo. But opinions have been made very clear, so be it. I will not be changing the Red Gigaremo. This also means the auto-feeder is off the table, since that was part of the same package.
Honestly, I am so incredibly frustrated by what happened yesterday. I am practically one step away from just caving in entirely and discarding the entire Daycare update. All of it. No buffs, no nerfs, no nothing, and you can all keep your awkward, annoying, broken system that forces you to grind for no other reason than to grind. But no. That's not good for the game. I will be proceeding with the remaining changes, regardless of how difficult it will be to de-spaghettify my ancient code to make it work.
I see some demands (not requests, demands) for "why Natures?" to which I can very easily say "why not Natures?" but that's not an answer. Someone mentioned not understanding why "a food preference" should affect compatibility, but... that's not what a Nature is. Nature causes flavour preferences, not the other way around. As for the why, you can insert your own reasoning but I kinda like the concept that "shared interests" leads to better compatibility. Gameplay-wise, it adds more diversity in options available to the player, which is rarely a bad thing. Does it "penalise" you for preferring mixed pairs for personal "flavour" reasons? Sure, if you want to look at it that way, but I would argue that doing things for "flavour" reasons is always gonna be suboptimal in some way, and that's okay. I will also note that if I had made Nature a part of the compatibility calculations from the start, we wouldn't even be having this discussion, it would just be a "fact of life" on PFQ.
Regarding the Red Gigaremo, I feel that a lot of reactions are completely out of proportion, so let me just try to make this clearer: at base value, you pay one Gem to get 10 minutes of double breeding rate. I would be very surprised if in those 10 minutes you got fewer than let's say 5 eggs. (Maybe for some specific Exclusive/Variant eggs it might be harder, but remember that those are getting buffed 2.5x anyway). Even just those 5 eggs will give you 5 Gems (more on Ravyne bonus days) which more than pays for itself. The point of being able to choose what type of Gem to use was meant to allow some optimisation with regard to how Happiness drained when using the Gigaremo. But opinions have been made very clear, so be it. I will not be changing the Red Gigaremo. This also means the auto-feeder is off the table, since that was part of the same package.
Honestly, I am so incredibly frustrated by what happened yesterday. I am practically one step away from just caving in entirely and discarding the entire Daycare update. All of it. No buffs, no nerfs, no nothing, and you can all keep your awkward, annoying, broken system that forces you to grind for no other reason than to grind. But no. That's not good for the game. I will be proceeding with the remaining changes, regardless of how difficult it will be to de-spaghettify my ancient code to make it work.
I think an auto feeder for sweethearts could be a very fun buyable upgrade, but it does make the only downside to the red gig negligible and encourages the dependency on use of sweethearts, so not the healthiest thing. Understand why that got taken out.
I noticed that the main question that I had and a few others expressed regarding the red gig’s use of gems didn’t get acknowledged, which is understandable with the sheer quantity of posts. I want to repeat myself a bit in hopes to hear your thought process: Why do gems need additional value added? Currently, no one has every hit the wishforge max, and very few players even have full wishalloy badges, meaning that nearly everyone on site has use for gems, thus giving them value. This would remain the same even if our playerbase tripled!
I’m indifferent on the v wave tbh. I think taking that concept off the table altogether was the right call to help soothe the community though.
At first i didn’t bat an eye at the natures because I myself am a nature collector, and all my pairs are already like that. But i got to thinking a little bit. From the previous thread proposing the 2024 changes, removing RNG from the base percentages in pair making was not something on the table at first. This came from a concern from players that their pre made max % pairs would be recalculated. for players with every pair possible, this was a devestating prospect. Your compromise and discussion seemed to state that removing the RNG variable would help preserve most of these pairs, barring their size or species differences. However, with the addition of matching natures influencing the base compatibility, this will undo a massive amount of the pairs on site. Anyone who’s not a nature collector with a complete collection of pairs is probably going to have to start from scratch.
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Quiet nature collector.I’m excited about the new update. I hope nothing else about it gets scrapped cuz clearly it was a lot of hard work and I’m personally looking forward to it. Thank you for all you do, Niet, in putting this game together for us :)
I'm going to echo the "not everyone sees the updates in discord" bit.
I'm also going to reiterate that adding the example you gave us to the front post would help.
I felt discouraged about the update until I saw the example you gave, and it made things clearer.
The issue people have with the red giga changes were the fact that gems would be required. So why can't it be optional? Like, genuinely, is there a reason you didn't consider making it optional?
QUOTE originally posted by Niet
A fully compatible pair will cap out at 80% compatibility, right? This is shown in the update post itself with full numbers.
You have the Rank Reward item providing a +20% modifier. You also have the ability to push Happiness way up to a +38% modifier. That already puts you at 132.5%
The worst-case V~Wave penalty rolls around, saddling you with its -16% modifier. Result: 111.3%
Still higher than 100%. You just get fewer Twins.
QUOTE originally posted by Achillo
I'm going to echo the "not everyone sees the updates in discord" bit.
I'm also going to reiterate that adding the example you gave us to the front post would help.
I felt discouraged about the update until I saw the example you gave, and it made things clearer.
The issue people have with the red giga changes were the fact that gems would be required. So why can't it be optional? Like, genuinely, is there a reason you didn't consider making it optional?
QUOTE originally posted by Niet
A fully compatible pair will cap out at 80% compatibility, right? This is shown in the update post itself with full numbers.
You have the Rank Reward item providing a +20% modifier. You also have the ability to push Happiness way up to a +38% modifier. That already puts you at 132.5%
The worst-case V~Wave penalty rolls around, saddling you with its -16% modifier. Result: 111.3%
Still higher than 100%. You just get fewer Twins.
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It’s unfortunate the v wave idea is getting scrapped. I liked the idea of better chances of twin eggs, just an exciting idea!
I trust the decisions made for the site are for the betterment of the entire player base. I wouldn’t still be playing daily if that weren’t the case.
Thanks for the updates always Niet!
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Avatar made by NinjaAnne — Buying for 20zc! 2/500Man, I'm super disappointed. I'm not one to post in forums much but I certainly wish I had now if only to add sone positivity. Though I wish we didn't have to have anything scrapped I'm at least very excited for what remains; I just hope nothing else gets scrapped in the process. The daycare changes were the ones I was most excited for. Regardless, thank you for all the work you've put in thus far and continue to put in.
I agree with others saying the Red Gigaremo being powered by gems could be optional, you can progress quite a bit enough in the game to achieve one and still be relatively low on your wishforge badges so having to power it with gems could suck for them, plus like I said before I can see one of the biggest benefits being giving Flawless Gems an actual use
So as others suggested, maybe make it optional? If you turn it on regularly it will go how it does now, but powering it with gems could make it more powerful with the downside being that it drains happiness faster, that way the item cans till be useful for semi early players while also being extra helpful for players already far along
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