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Daycare Update 2024 plans

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Niet [Adam]'s AvatarNiet [Adam]
Niet [Adam]'s Avatar
As part of the 2024 Update plans, the DayCare is seeing a rebalance. Some buffs, some nerfs, some quality-of-life, some info... This update has a bit of everything, so please make sure to read through the whole update to get a full picture of planned changes!
Updated, with further details here. Estimated reading time: 18 minutes. Sorry! First, for some context, here is a full and complete breakdown of the current breeding system's mechanics.

Current system details

On the first time a new couple meets in the DayCare, the following algorithm is run to establish their compatibility:
If both are Ditto, return 0. If one is Ditto...
If the other is in the Undiscovered Egg Group, return 0. Otherwise, bypass the egg group and gender checks.
If neither is Ditto...
If they are of the same gender*, return 0. If they do not have an Egg Group in common†, return 0. *Falinks, Tandemaus and Maushold are treated as both male and female, as needed. †Special cases exist for certain Variants that are hybrids of Pokémon that don't share an Egg Group, but this is handled separately.
If checks have passed so far, proceed to Base Compatibility calculation.
After establishing that the couple is compatible, the following algorithm determines how compatible they are:
Calculate "Species Compatibility" (SC)
If they are of the same species, SC=40 If they are members of the same evolution family, SC=40 If they are members of a parallel pair, eg. Miltank+Tauros, SC=30 Otherwise, check the following aspects for similarity:
(Note: SC+=X is shorthand for SC=SC+X, increasing the value if the condition is met) Base SC=10 If the two parents have the same Body Style, as shown in the Dex, then SC+=8 If the two parents have at least one Type in common, then SC+=8 If they don't share any types at all, compare type matchups:
Evaluate the type matchup of the mother's types "attacking" the father's type, and vice versa. If neither parent has a material advantage over the other, then SC+=4 Examples: - A Bug-type breeding with a Water-type, neither type has an advantage over the other, so SC+=4 - An Electric-type breeding with a Ground-type, the latter has a material advantage over the former so no compatibility gain here. - A Fire/Dark-type breeding with a Grass/Fighting-type, they each have one super-effective type against the other, balancing out to an even match, so SC+=4
Height check: lose 1 SC for each 0.4m of difference from 0.8m onwards, capping at a -15 penalty if the height difference is extreme. Weight check: lose 1 SC for each 20kg of difference from 100kg onwards, capping at a -15 penalty if the weight difference is extreme.
This yields an SC value of up to 26 if the species are very similar, down to -20 if they are vastly different.
Next, check if each parent has been Traded. For the purposes of this check, "OT" refers to the first person who traded it away, rather than whoever bred the egg or hatched it. Trade Compatibility (TC) is 20 times the number of different OTs (excluding the current user), so can be 0, 20 or 40. Using the above, Compatibility is given by: 10 + SC + TC + rand(0,9) The result can be as high as 90-99 depending on the random value, and while it can be as low as -10 if you pair two species of wildly different height and weight and where one has a type advantage over the other and you are the OT of both and the RNG rolls the lowest value... the result is clamped so it cannot go below 1. Special cases time!
Unown fails the gender check on account of being genderless. When breeding with Ditto, compatibility is just some random number from 1 to 10 but can yield any letter at all. Breeding with another Unown yields a deterministic result of a single letter, and a random compatibility between 30 and 60. In both cases, OT doesn't matter. Egg Group overrides now apply for Variant breeding where the parents would normally be incompatible.
Vulpix + Articuno: random compatibility between 1 and 5 "Demigod" (Legend + non-Legend): random compatibility between 5 and 20 Hybrid: random compatibility between 30 and 60
In all these cases, OT doesn't matter.
Finally, for lore reasons, Zangoose and Seviper suffer a -30 penalty to compatibility, but is still clamped to a minimum value of 1 so breeding remains possible.
Got all that so far? We're almost done, now it's time for Special Cases - this is what triggers the "This couple may produce something unexpected!" notice.
Plusle and Minun: two of the same yields Plusle, while opposing parents yields Minun. Unown letter calculation is handled here. All Variants, including regional variants like Alolan Vulpix, have their conditions checked. The result is saved as a 10% chance to produce the variant egg, with the exception of Kinaster who has a 5% chance.
Almost done! Now for Dynamic Modifiers. While the above is fixed after an initial meeting, the following modifiers take real-time effects into consideration.
These modifiers are multiplicative on the base compatibility. This means that a +10% modifier equates to a x1.1 multiplication, while a -10% modifier is a x0.9 multiplication. Low level: -1% for each level below 50 on the lowest-level parent. Level gap: -1% for each gap in level between the parents. Happiness: ... it's complicated. Take the lower of the two parents' Happiness values (out of 255), log-base-10, then divide by 2 (subtract 1 and then multiply by 100 to get a percentage modifier). This gives a result that's roughly neutral at default happiness, drops off sharply at low happiness values (reaching negative infinity at 0 happiness!) and only marginally increasing up to about +20% at max happiness. Basculin: Red and Blue stripe hate each other, so suffer a -60% modifier here. Why isn't this done in the same way as Zangoose and Seviper? I don't know! This is what happens when you have old code that isn't well documented...
I'm tired just writing all that, but it's important to understand the current system thoroughly in order to understand the changes being planned, so I hope it was at least comprehensible! Now it's time for the change list:

Code changes

The DayCare code is about 700 lines of "if... else if... else if..." for every possible Variant. Some cases are even duplicated: hybrid Variants across egg groups need to be checked on initial meeting and again when evaluating special cases! I will be restructuring this into something more rigorous, well-defined, and easier to maintain. This has the added bonus that Unown and cross-egg-group hybrid Variants will be able to benefit from the OT bonus because they'll be evaluated sooner! They will also benefit from "species similarity" modifiers, rather than just being assigned a random value in some range. There will, however, be an additional "parent is Legend" compatibility penalty to make such Variants a little harder to produce (upside: less non-Variant egg spam, relatively!)

Compatibility changes

At this time, compatibility is evaluated once on initial meeting, and then never again. But circumstances can change, the most obvious one being Pokémon that evolve. In some cases this can drastically change the expected compatibility, but they will instead just retain the one they had initially. After the update, compatibility will be recalculated on every meeting. To give an example: - An Eevee and a Growlithe meet and have a certain compatibility. - Later, the Eevee evolves into a Flareon. This should increase compatibility, as their Types now match, and they become more similar in size. - If the Growlithe evolves into Arcanine, the size difference becomes quite considerable, which should lower compatibility by a couple points. Under the current system, this couple would have entirely different values depending on where in the sequence they actually meet in the Daycare. With the new system they will be updated correctly, it won't matter that they met before evolving, they benefit from present-day compatibility. Instead of the Pokémon being of the same species or evolution family causing a fixed value and skipping the rest of the compatibility calculation, it will apply +10 SC if they are the same species, or +8 SC if they are in the same evolution family. This means that two individuals of the same species - who would automatically get the full 26 SC from everything matching up - will have a base compatibility of 36 SC while members of the same evolution family (but at different stages) can get up to 34 SC if the evolution is a relatively minor change, but it allows for some interesting angles such as a Flareon and Glaceon being less compatible than a Flareon and Jolteon due to the type matchup (although due to evolution family relation, Flareon + Glaceon will still be +8 SC compared to Flareon with any other Ice-type) The RNG component of the compatibility calculation will be completely removed. No more hunting for the perfect partner - this feature did nothing but cause frustration for players seeking to eke out the last few percentage points. Nature will be added to compatibility calculations: - If the Pokémon have a shared preference in their Natures, +8 SC - If the Pokémon have a shared dislike in their Natures, +6 SC - These effects stack: if they are the exact same Nature, +14 SC total. The OT bonus will no longer stack with itself. Only one Pokémon needs to be from a different OT for best results of +20 compatibility. Note that receiving two Pokémon from the same OT won't get this bonus - the OTs have to be different, but this change makes it so that one of the OTs can be you. No more needing to trade a pair to another player to have them pair them for you! Ditto will be treated as "same species" for the purpose of compatibility calculations, but will continue to have halved effective breeding rates like it currently does. Still, this represents a significant overall buff. This means that the maximum base compatibility of a pair will be two individuals of the same species (or anyone with Ditto) having the same Nature, yielding 80% compatibility. Yes this is lower than the current max of 99%. I know. But the maximum is easier to attain, involves less frustration and busywork, and crucially no longer has an RNG factor. Don't worry, the Dynamic Modifiers are where the buffs are!

Dynamic modifier changes

First things first, if the dynamic modifiers bring a couple to over 100% compatibility, then the "excess" will become a chance of a double breeding chance. This can yield "twin eggs", and such a twin will be referenced on the Summary page, under the parents. Imagine the rarity value of a pair of Twin Shinies, and beyond! In order to make this a realistic possibility, I am aiming to balance the dynamic modifiers to max out to about a 2x multiplier to the base compatibility - under optimal circumstances this should give a 60% Twin chance! To that end... - Low level / level gap modifiers aren't changing. - Happiness modifier will be based on the fourth-root, not the log-10, of happiness, and scaled so that "default happiness" (70) is the fixed-point. Notably, this buffs a max-happiness couple from a +20% bonus to about a +38% bonus! - The Daycare Breeding Boost from Rank Rewards will be activated, adding a +20% bonus. - The V~Wave will affect compatibility. Cancelled.

Red Gigaremo changes Cancelled.

Changes related to the Red Gigaremo have been removed.

Random buffs go!

A few tweaks to numbers that are just straight-up buffs to the whole Breeding system! - Currently, base DayCare adoption limit is 6. The expansion item given as a Rank Reward for 10% Dex completion is a x2.5 boost, and Hypermode is another 2x boost. This will be raised to a base of 10. (15=>25 with expansion, 12=>20 with just Hypermode, 30=>50 with both) - Party interactions will have a 1/3 chance to count double for progressing Breeding Cycles, meaning that on average it will take 48 Party interactions (instead of 64) to complete one (24 instead of 32 with the Red Gigaremo). This will be implemented as "number of batched interactions / 3", so a full party + showcase being clicked swiftly enough to have the results all show up at the same time, will always yield 16 steps (instead of 12). RNG will only apply if the number of batched interactions doesn't evenly divide by 3. This will greatly reduce variance, potentially even eliminating it! - Exclusives currently have between a 2% and 10% chance to successfully breed, depending on how many Seasons have passed since their release. This will be buffed and will range from 5% to 25% instead. - Variants can be produced in two ways: directly from Variant parents, or as first-generation Variants using their special breeding method. Both cases have a 10% chance of happening right now. I will be buffing first-generation Variants to 25%, to account for difficulties in Compatibility making suitable parent pairs.

Quality of Life updates

These updates don't change the game balance, but they do make things a little more convenient. - You will be able to fill all empty slots in your Party with Eggs in a single action, rather than having to count as you adopt them one by one. - Assuming you have the Spyglass to identify different types of Eggs in your DayCare, you will have the option to release all of a certain type of Egg.

Information updates

Information is good, right? - There will be an explanation of Variants (both Regional and PFQ-exclusive) and Alolan Vulpix will be cited as an example for the user to try. - The compatibility calculation will be broken down and presented in a tooltip for interested users to review so they might try to optimise their pairs. - Where possible, the DayCare will explicitly tell you what "unexpected" things might be bred, and how likely such outcomes are. This also applies to basic parallels like Miltank/Tauros! (There was recently a bug where the Magipede variant couldn't be bred due to a typo - if the information had been made visible, it would've been a lot more obvious what was wrong before the poor user bred 1000 Sizzlipede eggs before asking for help!)
Whew! We made it! Thank you for sticking with me. I believe that overall these changes will make the DayCare much more interesting overall, especially with the "Twins" concept - it'll be interesting to see how new markets might develop around this mechanic! I will be working on this update's code over the next week or so. It's a lot of mess to untangle, so I don't have a fixed deadline to give you just yet. I will be sure to update when I have an answer. In the meantime, feedback on the above is welcome!

TL;DR: you really should read it all if you can

- Code will be cleaned up, allowing "special cases" to be a little less "special" and benefit from modifiers like OT bonuses. - Compatibility will be recalculated every meeting. - Same Evolution Family is no longer a fixed value, but can vary depending on how "drastic" the change caused by evolution is. - No more RNG in compatibility calculations! - Nature will boost compatibility if they share a preference, or a dislike, or just straight-up have the same Nature. - OT bonus no longer stacks, allowing you to use your own Pokémon when making pairs (without having to trade them to a friend to have them pair for you) - Ditto will count as "same species" for any partner, due to Transform, resulting in better compatibility than it currently gets. - Maximum possible base compatibility will be 80%, but will be easier to attain due to RNG removal and OT simplification. Note that with the activation of the Daycare Breeding Boost item, this already brings compatibility up to 96%. Stacking all bonuses together can get 159%, so it's definitely not bad! - A modified compatibility of more than 100% will take the "excess" as a probability to yield a Twin Egg, which will be connected on the Summary Page below the parents. - Happiness modifier is getting buffed (max result increased from +20% to +38%) - Base adoption limit is raised from 6 to 10, with boosted values scaling accordingly. - Party interactions will progress Breeding Cycles 33% faster. - Exclusives and (first-generation) Variants will be about 2.5x easier to breed. - You will be able to quick-fill your Party with Eggs, or release all of a particular type of Egg from the DayCare. - Various pieces of information will be added, or made clearer.
As a reminder, the Wishforge is getting a minor buff at the same time as this update goes out, raising the minimum IV values for Master badges (badges above Wishalloy).
Clip from Pokémon anime, re-lined by me
-- OMNOMNOM!
Featured story: Injustice Feedback welcome!
AnimalCell's AvatarAnimalCell
AnimalCell's Avatar
What about variant pokemon that DON'T have a special breeding method? I'd really like to have a more than 10% chance per egg to breed a deinglitch, when I get around to it. Other than that, everything sounds super awesome. Thank you as always for the comprehensive breakdown, Niet!
Niet [Adam]'s AvatarNiet [Adam]
Niet [Adam]'s Avatar

QUOTE originally posted by AnimalCell

What about variant pokemon that DON'T have a special breeding method? I'd really like to have a more than 10% chance per egg to breed a deinglitch, when I get around to it. Other than that, everything sounds super awesome. Thank you as always for the comprehensive breakdown, Niet!
It doesn't have a method yet, but it will... I might even add it in as part of this update, why not? :D
Rhunya's AvatarRhunya
Rhunya's Avatar
Excited for the updates, thank you for the comprehensive breakdown! Finishing off my breeding pairs will be so much easier now ;3; 💜
Breakneck Blitz 3rd Place trophy by spidrenam (sprite usage)
Score: 0
Shirarisun's AvatarShirarisun
Shirarisun's Avatar
i'm sorry, but the v-wave potentially causing a nerf is a terrible change. having just the boosts or no bonus is fine i guess, but the potential of getting a bad luck string of v-waves for your pair (if you are stuck in the middle of a hunt, especially in type race where this can massively impact team scores) can be devastating. really am not enjoying this. really odd how there's no more rng factor when it comes to the base compatibility, but then this is added. i'm a bit confused. (also not a fan of the gigaremo needing gems either. i though it sapping happiness Was the penalty-) edit: also not a fan of already existing pairs that aren't the exact same species or nature getting hit by this. i specifically don't really care for nature and thus my pairs tend to be different natures. now they'll be less compatible than average because of that despite hitting all other qualifiers... i'm typically not this negative about updates, but a lot of this sounds like a step back. i really like the ditto change and the slighting increased exclusive/variant rates as well as all the qol, but the bulk of these sound like they're trying to fix problems that don't exist.
shira//any pronouns//-4 server time hunt journal
pfp source | sprites from kirby super star
Brohepsi's AvatarBrohepsi
Brohepsi's Avatar
I'm sorry I really just can't get behind the red gigaremo change. It's going to make things a lot more difficult for new players and players like me who still aren't at wishalloy badges. Especially when I already paid for it
EstherGamer's AvatarEstherGamer
EstherGamer's Avatar
(I think I got through that in less than 18 minutes... I'm a fast reader) Whoaaaaaa, that's a lot for me to be excited about! Especially considering I breed my Snoralts with a Gardevoir-Froslass pair meaning that buff is huge for that specific hunt! Never use the gigaremo anyway, so it costing gems wouldn't be a big deal for me anyway. And I'm so excited to be able to get better pairs more easily, searching around and hoping for good RNG was somewhat annoying at times! Looks like I'll finally need to fix up my Eevee pair though, currently that's Vaporeon-Umbreon and is hugely improvised from back when I did my first Vee hunt...
Avatar is an edited version of Sky Forme Shaymin's portrait from Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky, edited by me. (Sprite by me)
Aysu Llyr's AvatarAysu Llyr
Aysu Llyr's Avatar
I really like where this is going! And those buffs will make it a lot easier to get certain eggs to fill up the pokedex too!
Avatar is made by Nightfury28. My Ponysona, Remembrance.
Is pair compatibility going to be re-evaluated everyday to also account for the v-wave changes or will the vwc modifier from the time they were added to the daycare apply to all breeding until the pair is re-evaluated?
Avianahelena's AvatarAvianahelena
Avianahelena's Avatar

QUOTE originally posted by Niet

QUOTE originally posted by AnimalCell

What about variant pokemon that DON'T have a special breeding method? I'd really like to have a more than 10% chance per egg to breed a deinglitch, when I get around to it. Other than that, everything sounds super awesome. Thank you as always for the comprehensive breakdown, Niet!
It doesn't have a method yet, but it will... I might even add it in as part of this update, why not? :D
Will you be adding hybridising methods to all/most of the ones that currently require an existing specimen of the line to breed? (e.g. Cactaboo from Pumpkaboo and Cacturne rather than having to have a Cactaboo already to get more.) That would be amazingly helpful for my arbitrary goal to have a living dex that's 100% either from my lab or bred from pokemon that are from my lab. Edited for clarity, I hope. Also to add that this looks like a cool change but I suggest a new Daycare feature "Vwave Shield" that can be activated for a fee for a day at a time, or activated/deactivated manually so that breeders have to pay attention to Vwave to avoid missing out on a buff?

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