I over-buffed Melanistic Pokémon...

My two cents as a returning player who sprung for HM: this change has completely hindered gameplay. As a paid player, I’m hatching max amount of eggs daily (well, not star pass level, but 120+ is still hours of play and rather respectable), and I’m having multiple days of nothing. When I first started my previous chain, I was getting a special once a day, which really made me want to play more—but now that rates are even worse, it does not retain my interest in a way that promotes daily interaction and makes me want to spend more money (which is what is the end goal here). And I’m certain I’m not the only one who feels demoralized in this. Although maintaining an “economy” can be a valid argument, if the individual user isn’t having fun and isn’t feeling incentivized to come back and play, there won’t be an economy. And what exactly will higher rates ruin? Make melans and albinos easier to get for players who will never be able to attain them on their own (read: players who can’t afford Zc items)? Selling specials doesn’t make people real IRL money, but higher rates make people want to play more often, which in turn leads to more incentives to buy Zc and net PFQ real, tangible profit. The in-game economy isn’t real, and more specials will just incentivize people to play more often, and give f2p players a chance to actually own one. Not to mention, how often are people actually farming so many specials that it will make a tangible difference in the market? How many players actually crank out 200 shinies from a chain of 20000? Mad respect to those that do, but I don’t think many casual players will be hunkering down for such a time investment when they may get demoralized by three days of play and zero specials and move on to the next chain. And that brings me to the last issue: why are f2p players being pushed even lower? Albinos were an equal playing field for everyone while shinies were abysmally hard to attain—now both shinies /and/ albinos are harder to get for f2p players. Which leads to less engagement, more frustration, and less incentive to drop money on premium features. If I’m not getting daily in-game rewards, then why should I be spending daily money to up those chances? Also, z crystals should never be factored into the rates. They are a premium feature very few can use. If they become an easy thing to buy, like shiny charms, /then/ they can be factored into the albino equation.

I agree with this. I think that it could also be done backwards; roll albino first, and if successful make shiny a bit less likely. Is anyone interested in doing the math to figure out how much less likely the second roll should be so that melanistic pokemon hatch at the current amount? I don't know where to find those statistics.

i agree with your entire post but i think this part bears repeating: most of the boost items are a constant daily cost, regardless of if they're being used or how much success they provide if i buy hypermode today, and don't login tomorrow, the hypermode counter still ticks down if i use a shiny charm, and hatch for three hours, then take a break, the shiny charm counter still ticks down this is largely why i keep "waiting" to buy these things. because i need to be able to be sure i'll be online constantly for, in the case of the shiny charm, 24 hours, and in the case of hypermode, 1 month and i'm realising: that's not going to happen. i have bigger priorities. buying those things will always be a waste of money, because i'll only use half the time i'm paying for. probably less. i know this thread is about shiny rates and not shiny costs but, aren't they kind of entangled? the rates have to be worth the cost, and right now they aren't. i also agree with the solution that if the entire problem is that melans are too common, just make them their own thing disentangled from shiny and albino. leave the rest alone, and fix only the part that is the actual problem: reduce melans, directly.

I did some math to put this all in a monetary perspective (since this is, essentially, about money). Using a conversion rate of 1.3 $ to £. Hope my math is right here. Daily up front costs of all boosts for 28 days: $0.29 daily HM $2.6 shiny charm $0.12 daily Uber = $3.01 (£2.32) daily investment = whopping $84.28 (£64.96) for first 28 days of max boosts (not including z crystals and max star pass) Daily costs assuming all 28 shiny charms can be recharged at max discount (I think that makes them 588gp total): $0.29 daily HM $0.12 daily Uber $0.05 recharged charm = $0.91 (£0.7) daily = a slightly more reasonable $25.48 (£19.60) every 28 days Now taking a look at ideal rates, assuming the player only has x pass a max of 109 eggs can be hatched daily, and is not using z crystals: - 1 shiny a day (0.6 days for star pass) - 1 albino every 2.2 days (1.5 days max pass) For melans the rate will be 1/100 * 1/240 = 24,000 plus the ideal 2.5x Arceus+ long chain bonus= 9,600 plus the x8 Uber = 1 in 1,200 = 1 melan every 11 days (every 8 days for max pass, and obviously lower for those with z crystals) You can do the math yourself to calculate the essential “cost” of specials with ideal (and not so ideal) rates. Remove the Arceus+ long chain bonus and we’re looking at a melan a month. Heck, looking at the numbers like this makes me selfishly think “why not double all the rates altogether?” Make this game more fun. Make it less of a drag. Getting an albino and a shiny a day makes me want to play more, and makes me want to actually buy shiny charms to get that daily dopamine of sparkles. If I’m spending the price of a mainline pokemon game on PFQ, I would definitely like to get a daily reward. Higher rates = higher engagement = more long term spending. If I knew I had a high chance of getting 1-2 specials a day, I would definitely be on here for the next 3 years compiling a living shiny dex. But if I’m hatching nothing but ponyta eggs for 2 weeks straight and don’t have a melan to show for it, then I’m essentially feeling like I’m wasting money and enjoyment. If I’m someone who buys max boosts AND maintains Arceus rank AND spends even more money on z crystals then, by god, I deserve my 1 melan every 3-5 days for the money and time I’m investing into the game. I know double rates isn’t realistic. I know that will never happen. I know not everyone will get sick of hatching the same egg for 11-30 days. But hopefully this wall of text puts into perspective the balance of monetary investment vs. enjoyment here. $25 a month is a lot of money (and time) to invest in a clicking game, and especially if you’re not guaranteed a daily (or even every other day) reward. Halving the rates only scales back both the enjoyment and the subsequent investment, with the benefit of... a higher S/A/M value in the marketplace. Food for thought. Thank you for reading.

Yeah I def agree with this recent time VS value discussion.... I mean the whole appeal of this site to me was the site specials not in the real games. If I wanted to have long chains with zero success I would go back to grinding my living shiny dex for Pokehome. I’ve been fixated on this site instead because it actually felt more rewarding and fun? I haven’t looked forward to my time on the site since the changes :/ and if I keep feeling more and more distanced from the site i'll be going back to f2p tbh

Wanting to pop in my 2 cents to get this off my chest and hopefully not overclog the Staff Chat on Discord. I hunt Melans. A lot. It's my thing here. I love the pretty special dark color mm purple sparkle yes mm good. TL;DR: Melans are nice. My whole motivation to play is to hunt Melans. I click in my free time, or multitask such, and hunt Rus, and all that good stuff. I was heavily in the boat that Melan chances were way too high with the 8x Ubercharm update. I had gotten 2 Melans under 500 Eggs then a couple hundred in the next hunt nabbed me another. I worried Melans would become too common, somewhat like Shinies and Albinos had become. Then the change happened. and now I have... *checks notes* hatched about 430 eggs and gotten 3 Shinies and 1 whole Albino. I detest it. There is no motivation to play now. I thrived on the Shiny and Albino sparkles to keep me motivated. "Oh man, that could have been a Melan, but that's progress.". Now it's "Hah, an Albino after 400 eggs. That Melan is never happening". For the first time in years I don't want to play. I love Pokefarm. I have played since 2010. I have consistently been playing for almost 4 years now and it's all about to go out the window because special rates have dropped so bad. It feels like how the Pokemon games play. "If you grinds for hours *maybe* you'll find a shiny." I feel the rate needs changed again. A middle ground. No one wants to grind heavily in a game where the main grab is specially colored Pokemon.

For things like the shiny charm and hypermode, where there is a long period of time, we should have custom times, like a rate of 1 day = a certain amount of zc, and then everyday you can do this if you play everyday, and there are special bonuses and discounts for bulk buying (ie. the entire month). It would be easier if everything had a base rate and there weren't so many bulk packages, like having the bulk packages, but also having a base rate and a custom amount option available. This solution should take care of people that use zc to make the game easier, because since everyone can get a small amount of zc at somepoint in the game just by trading off excess credits or gp, it can give everyone a chance for a small amount of hypermode, shiny charm and uber charm bonuses. I don't feel their rates play the biggest role in their problems, because if we lower other things down it evens out, especially if everyone can afford it for a bit.

gfhdjskal - I get what you're saying, and I agree there could be 1 day or 1 week hypermode, shiny charms can be affordable by renting and they are already a 1 day use item that is recharged so I don't really get where that price could be adjusted nor personally do I think it needs to be. I have to completely disagree about pokemon rates not playing a big role with problems on the site, because as myself and a few others have stated we dislike these changes enough to not put money into the site and to step away overall. There are of course people who do not feel that way and will continue to purchase ZC, and that's fine too. Everyone is free to their own thoughts and opinions on it, however I really have to disagree and say that the rates are going to be a problem. We lost a lot of people to RMT being banned, then to the ZC Price updates, now we are losing even more to these changes. Of course, we will get new people but if no one is hatching specials they aren't going to want to stick around very long if that is their main goal on the site. Even if the cost for everything were lowered, if no one is hatching specials then what does buying those things even matter, is the point I'm making. There are people with max paid buffs, even using Z Crystals and hatching 1 shiny a day and thats it (EDIT: Most, from what I've seen, are like 1 shiny every 2-3 days and an albino...not so much). A lot of people I've spoken to said as soon as their HM runs out, if changes haven't been made, they are quitting. I don't want to quit this site, but I definitely do not like the current direction it is taking and will probably also step back until adjustments have been made that overall don't feel like crap. At this point I would rather be hunting for elusive shinys in main line games that can take years, than to hunt anything here. It definitely feels more rewarding than this site currently does, and that is very unfortunate because I did love playing this site but with these rate changes it feels like I'm forcing myself to because I spent money, and I don't wanna do that nor do I want to feel that way.

258 posts all with strong opinions and I don't really see anyone supporting the changes. Seems like a pretty closed case.

I agree but i dont think that the admins really want to listen. i mean, its their site, they can do what they want, but its WAYYY less enjoyable. im on a chain using the stats of no albinos per (almost) 300 eggs when ive been getting albinos with no chain