PSA: Type Race threads are NOT for trading.
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I believe the confusion is entirely in what is considered "spammy" and "irrelevant" vs what is actually allowed. I always thought that if you were not the thread leader posting extra links was considered spam/rule breaking.
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@ the update, people (in this thread) understand that the rules are written the way they are, they just also disagree. reiterating them is pointless
I would like to add my two cents as well, as someone who A) has a history of moderating forums like this and is currently a server administrator on multiple discords, B) has led multiple type races before, and C) is an active player who really wants to help the community.
I want to be clear that I am adding my thoughts as neutrally and kindly as I can. The mods are, to my best understanding, volunteers who work hard because they love this site as much as we all do. Methos is in my type race thread themselves for example, and I want them to feel as welcome there as any other player. I also really love leading type races, as I find the work satisfying and fulfilling for me, so I want the experience to be fun for myself included.
My thoughts may repeat what other players have said. This is not strictly intentional - rather it is an echoing of what this portion of the community's beliefs are.
If you choose to read this thoroughly mods, my genuine thank you in advance.
Let me know if you have any questions or thoughts on this that you'd like me to address. I love you all, genuinely and truly. I hope this helps in some way.
My thoughts (there are a lot)
It's my belief that the type race threads are the most community-oriented event that the game has. This is a time when players are encouraged to work together and earn as many points as possible. The changes brought in 2023 clearly gave a lot of new life to the event that was needed, and increased the activity in the threads exponentially.
The role of a type race leader is not that of a true "leader" - I think of it more as a secretary role. You're organizing and filing, you're not really leading as there is no power being passed to the type race leader except that of a watching eye for the sake of the mods. However, this is a flawed position in my mind: any reports made by the type race leader are a catch-22 of over or under reporting depending on how strictly they desire to follow the written rules (or how well they understand them), and their own tolerance of technical rule-breaking. They either have to become VERY friendly with the mod report page, or risk a moderator coming in to chastise the whole group for the actions of a few.
I feel like this becomes an exceptional burden on the moderators. By making this catch-22, you either have a huge increase of reports during the week leading up to and the week of type race, or you have to have the moderators read every single thread multiple times a day to look for rule breaking and enforce it on their own.
As a type race leader, you're also a volunteer who may be limited by their own free time. Of course by volunteering and accepting the role of leader you are making an unspoken pledge to do exactly that - but this is the critical misstep in my opinion: the only power they have is to put more burden on the actual moderators.
The sense of community that is fostered by type race is one that makes type race "secretary" work worth it - players helping other players in a way that they can all succeed in the race. I think I speak for us all when we way we WANT to see everyone meet their personal goals, and helping other players is absolutely the best way to do that. People want to help other people, and they want to help in whatever way they can.
There are of course limits. I do not disagree at ALL that SELLING on a type race forum is tasteless and spammy. However I do make a distinction between a loan, a gift, and a trade. If money is being passed around, it is a trade; a loan is like that of a pair being lent for the week; and a gift is that. And people LOVE giving gifts. It's a basic tenant of the human quality of compassion that makes a society work: benefitting others with no benefit to yourself.
I think it's unreasonable to ask players to NOT help each other, as much as I think it's unreasonable to ask mods to spend so much of their time focusing on restricting the ability to help other players in this race. I think mod time is better spent on more pressing issues in the threads - or in participating in the races themselves and having fun.
I also consequentally believe that there should be more responsibility placed upon the type race leader. Currently they are being rewarded for secretary work - which is important and helps keep everyone organized, but that catch-22 rears its ugly head as I mentioned earlier. It is my firm belief that if someone volunteers to be a type race leader, they should be given the small nugget of freedom to be a leader.
I will define what I mean by this in clearer terms. I believe the ideal balance is to allow the type race thread leader to enforce the written rules to a certain degree - telling players to knock off spammy posts and reminding them of the written rules as they are outlined by the site. In turn, the moderators would be able to focus their attention on just the 18 leaders, rather than the entire community in equal measure. The leaders would then be able to make the decision to escalate an issue beyond them if there is a need to - or have an issue escalated above them if they aren't doing their job.
This ties in to the issues that the other players here have brought up: by loosening the rules of what's allowed in a type race thread, but handing more power to the volunteer leader, you eliminate that catch-22 that places so much burden on the moderators. You create an environemnt of trust, and you create it in such a way that the community benefits as a whole.
In turn, this creates a small pressure on the leaders to perform better and do their jobs correctly--and establishes that there ARE consequences for being a bad leader. The mods should have the power to say no, we gave you that trust and you abused it, so you cannot be type race leader anymore and do not get the benefits thusly.
To be clear: I do not think this is a widespread issue, the concept of a bad type race leader. I simply think that it is the natural consequence to the concept of giving any amount of power to a volunteer leader. If you are going to trust someone, you must establish that there is a consequence for breaking that trust.
In conclusion: this became a lot more of an issue of how much power the type race leader has versus the needs of the moderators rather than the specific rule breaking, but I believe that this is the source of the issue at hand.
I'll summarize my suggestions below. I am happy to make them into a suggestion thread as well if asked.
- Define the difference between a trade, a loan, and a gift as outlined by other players in this thread.
- Give more power to type race leaders to reduce moderator burden.
- Establish consequences for being bad at your volunteered job.
- Establish trust and rewards in players for being good at your volunteered job.
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QUOTE originally posted by Methos
QUOTE originally posted by skiddo
Just an idea, might polish this into more of a suggestion if it's something people would see benefit from.
Maybe, if the main concern here is that "trades belong in the trade forum" - maybe allow users to post links to team-relevant trade/giveaway* threads in the type race thread? Eg, instead of making a "does anyone have/want this" post in the main team thread, the user could link to their buying/trading (not begging) thread instead, so any trading and responses to the query could be made in the trade thread like the staff team's vision, not in the main type race thread.
* (aka, not contests, just giveaways)
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Honestly, I struggle to see how someone saying something like 'if anyone has any spare 'nature' Pokémon please consider me' as begging. Everyone else can ignore if they want, but when people are hunting all sorts loads get released daily. The shelter is already massive so stopping a few from going there doesn't hurt anyone?
Loads of users take it as an opportunity to make pairs to lend out for future type races too, i.e. helping the team and morale, helping new users who don't have pairs yet.
I have always enjoyed the threads, and whilst I think asking for names for specials is a bit far, sharing the specials can be so encouraging! I have been on the side where I have gone the whole type race without hatching a special, and part of me gets a little jealous but that is always dispelled and replaced with joy for my team mates.
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So, you can put an ask for anything in your forum signature right now, post in a Type Race thread about something else (TR-related), and teammates can see your ask.
i have a lot of respect for the work you guys do as mods, and i want to be as constructive and helpful to the site as possible. if this comes across as too aggro, angry, passive agressive then i do apologise in advance as that is not my intentions.
can we talk about WHY there has been such an increase in rule-breaking to the point that rule reminders are having to be posted? i know it's not such an easy answer, but do you have any leads on why there's been such an increase?
for example, do you think the rules could do with greater visibility, especially subforum specific ones? should the subforum-specific rules ALSO be put on the main rules page, rather than simply linked? is it too easy to not read the rules? is it understaffing? does there need to be a bigger push for the general userbase to report more often? genuinely, what's going on because it feels like there's more rulebreaking everyday, and at times the mod team seems powerless to stop it. in the past couple of months, i've seen more than a couple of 'rule-breaking previous to this will be forgiven because it's more work than we can do', and i would really like to see the site get back to a point where the mods don't feel too overworked that they are having to post messages like that. i hope you are all holding up alright, genuinely.
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QUOTE originally posted by scavengers
can we talk about WHY there has been such an increase in rule-breaking to the point that rule reminders are having to be posted? i know it's not such an easy answer, but do you have any leads on why there's been such an increase?
for example, do you think the rules could do with greater visibility, especially subforum specific ones? should the subforum-specific rules ALSO be put on the main rules page, rather than simply linked? is it too easy to not read the rules?
QUOTE originally posted by Methos
If there's a lot of asking for free stuff in a TR thread and it seems "normal", unless they have actually read the rules or previously been corrected, players tend to generalize that as it being okay to ask for free stuff in other places as well.
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QUOTE originally posted by Methos
QUOTE originally posted by skiddo
Just an idea, might polish this into more of a suggestion if it's something people would see benefit from.
Maybe, if the main concern here is that "trades belong in the trade forum" - maybe allow users to post links to team-relevant trade/giveaway* threads in the type race thread? Eg, instead of making a "does anyone have/want this" post in the main team thread, the user could link to their buying/trading (not begging) thread instead, so any trading and responses to the query could be made in the trade thread like the staff team's vision, not in the main type race thread.
* (aka, not contests, just giveaways)
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QUOTE
So, you can put an ask for anything in your forum signature right now, post in a Type Race thread about something else (TR-related), and teammates can see your ask.
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