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Site-wide Goal Adjustments

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NORsevvy's Avatarhypermode-12.pngNORsevvy
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i do totally get that with an increased playerbase, the goals should realistically be higher. i'm absolutely fine with that but this really does feel like a punishment :( the bonuses don't Need to be active every single day, but it's kind of exhausting and feels incredibly demotivating if they only activate every week or so. i get that they're not meant to be a constant sort of thing, but it's vaguely starting to feel like they're not meant to happen at All AHAHA (overdramatic phrasing 100%, i just wasn't sure how else to put it) i also feel like this happened So soon after the last bonus rework, which i feel like we weren't even hitting all that frequently (i could absolutely be wrong, but it for sure Felt like it was far more infrequent than before) overall i'm really not happy about this. i would really Love to see these changes be reverted, but if they're not, i am in Full Agreement that the counters need to be significantly more powerful to warrant such an extreme goal. i'm glad the garth counter got boosted, so that's already a good step! but the other counters absolutely need to be more worthwhile if these goals are going to continue being so steep. it feels incredibly punishing to have to work even harder for a goal that's barely even worth it it's definitely discouraging to see a goal So Far out of your reach, and i feel like this arguably would probably only drive more people away instead of making people want to work harder to hit the goal, especially with the rewards being as low as they currently are
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QUOTE originally posted by JustCallMeMochi

sei also needs to kind of be reworked. i, and many others, can't justify hunting super hard on sei days less than 20, and it feels like a waste of community effort to bump the gauge up so much more just to have a chance of a less than satisfactory bonus.
I think the sei bonus is fine. The mininum boost is still good at around 25% with the other full boosts and the average of 17-18 is about a 40% boost I agree that others (namely ravyne, novan and Elta) could use a boost to the minimum though
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As was mentioned, the use of the word "balance" for this is a bit odd. Typically, in a case similar to the way the Bonus Counters are handled on here, the usual way of "balancing" would be to have the Bonuses have a stronger minimum or be generally better while increasing the amount of a given action it takes for them to activate. I feel like the proper term to use here, as you have already used in the title, is an "adjustment." Like Mochi mentioned, having the minimum levels of most of the Bonuses increase would help with that; you had already done something similar with Garthic's Bonus in order to make it less "invalid" whenever it was activated, which I think helped quite a bit, especially with the recent additions of Interaction Point-based purchases. The site itself is livelier that I've seen it in a while. Very consistent 1,000+ player counts is definitely something to congratulate & acknowledge, even if that acknowledgement ends up being to adjust site-wide Bonuses to require more work, since with a much higher playerbase, it shouldn't be all too much harder. The problem here really comes from the want to hit those goals in the first place. If the Bonuses are "not worth it," people aren't going to want to put in the effort. If the Bonuses become more & more infrequent, people aren't going to want to put in the effort. And, unfortunately, if the goals of these Bonuses are increased further & further, people, myself included, are not going to want to put in the effort when it all feels slow and, in some cases, just not worth it. The basic gist of what I'm trying to say is that if the Bonus Counter objectives get raised, a truly balanced way of going about doing so would be, at the very least, to make the minimum strength of these Bonuses stronger. It's extremely hard to have a direct nerf be palatable to a playerbase without there being something that they can also benefit from. (Yes, I know I used the word "nerf;" as of this moment, these are just increases to goals which will make Bonuses more infrequent, so unless any kind of buff also gets applied, this is a nerf.) I'm curious about the stats of the frequencies of these Bonuses' activations & I know there's a page somewhere on-site that displays the Bonuses that were active for each day & what their levels were, but I can't remember where it is or how to get to it, haha! I wanna see what the average pace of activation is for each one & even potentially look at what the average level each of them activates at. Comparing that stuff with site activity as a whole for each given day might give some insight into what Bonuses & levels of said Bonuses players find "worth it!" ^v^

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I completely understand the feelings of "punishment" in this thread, I've felt that way before, and I'm not gonna judge people for what they feel because of what's being implemented or, if this is the case for you, because of the way it was communicated. What helps me come to terms with it though, is understanding the bonuses less as a "reward for gameplay" and more as "semi-scheduled boosts", in that the boosts are intended to be activated in certain timeframes. Eg, let's say that Niet intends Sei day to be activated every two weeks. If we consistently activate it every week, then Niet will make changes to make it more in line with his intention. Same for if we activate it less often than intended, then it would get easier. I completely get the feeling of "this feels like working harder for the same thing", and if the end-goal intention was "the average amount of effort will trigger the bonus counter every 10 or so days, whether that average is greater or lesser than what it's been in the past," then I agree that the intention isn't quite coming through well. From what I'm reading, a lot of the pushback is coming from ideas of "I think it would still be balanced for X bonus counter to activate as frequently as it does now" or "I think the intended timeframes for X bonus counter is too much" or, like I've seen and fully support, "I think X bonus counter would be too weak if it activated less frequently than this". I can't speak for pushback against the idea of balancing as an entire concept, or pushback against communication in this instance. It's okay, I accept that balance has got to happen, and I do appreciate the clarity on these decisions.
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Little disheartened to see how high it got, but the site's activity has been very high to justify it and its probably pretty healthy tbh. We will survive :D

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As an offering of compromise, I have dialed the Sei counter requirement back down to 5277 instead of 5777. Perhaps it was too much of a jump in one go. We'll see how things go.
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I get the changes and am thrilled to see so much activity to warrant them, and I'll also just throw out my agreement with others that the minimum boost for a few of counters (like Rayvne, as mentioned frequently) could use a boost. It feels bad to get nothing! I remember when I first signed up for the site in 2020 and I didn't stick around. One, because I was in the middle of a very stressful personal time and two, it felt very empty then. When I logged back in at the end of 2023 I was really surprised and happy to see the amount of people online and that has just gone up. It used to be a lot harder to get my eggs hatched and I remember times when I first signed up that I would get through the online users clicklist extremely easily, and that hasn't happened to me once since I've been back. So while yeah, it might feel bad to have the boost counters take a bit longer to activate, I'm a lot happier knowing that it means the site and community is nice and healthy right now 🥰
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QUOTE originally posted by Niet

As an offering of compromise, I have dialed the Sei counter requirement back down to 5277 instead of 5777. Perhaps it was too much of a jump in one go. We'll see how things go.
that helps with that, but what do you plan to do to acknowledge the other bonuses and other ideas? i would rather be shut down or told no than not know and just have it left unanswered! /nm (not mad)

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I agree with what Mochi said above. I'm especially interested in a response to this post:

QUOTE originally posted by WoefulQasida

I'm really confused about what balance even means in a game like this. I used to play overwatch, and in that context, balancing meant changing abilities so that certain powers or heroes weren't game-breaking and able to singlehandedly ruin the game for the other team. Obviously, pokefarm is absolutely nothing like overwatch, so what does it mean to balance a game in this context?
It's really not clear how making the bonuses frustratingly more and more difficult to achieve is a "balance" or a viable way to promote growth of the site at all. As others have said (Enbees explained the overall sentiment very well), it absolutely feels like more like a downer/punishment instead of what is being presented as a "reward" for playing more.
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It's important to consider the global state of the game. Remember that PFQ is the furthest thing from a single-player game. If everyone could just get what they wanted easily, there wouldn't be any market or trading or economy to speak of. When considering game balance, it is referring to the overall availability of supply and demand to keep the game's economy flowing smoothly. To illustrate a need for big-picture views, Ravyne's potential x1.5 modifier is actually a good example. Yes, an individual egg hatch can absolutely yield "no bonus" on this day. But do you really only hatch one egg in the whole day? Of course not, some people hatch hundreds! Let's say you're a mathematically average user, hatching 25 eggs on a x1.5 day. That'll get you about 37 or 38 gems, give or take a couple due to random variation. That is, indeed, the 50% increase advertised by the x1.5 bonus. Now consider that I have to balance the activity of thousands and thousands of players. It's an incredibly delicate task to keep things achievable enough to keep people interested, yet not so easy that nobody bothers trading anything because they can just get it themselves. That is what is meant by game balance on PFQ. I don't currently plan on modifying the values of the Bonus Counters, but I am always open to the idea. So this is a "no, not right now, but maybe during another adjustment."

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