Making Koraidon/Miraidon More Special

Suggestion Title: Make Koraidon/Miraidon more "special" as they are Legendary Pokémon. Suggestion Summary: I find it kinda odd that Koraidon and Miraidon are treated like every other Paradox in PFQ. They ARE Paradoxes in canon, true, but they're also the box legendaries. The only thing that sets them apart from the other Paradoxes is that they have form changing items in the tourney shop, like other legendaries. I suggest that there should be an extra way to make the two more "legendary" than they are now. I'm not saying change them so they aren't Paradoxes, as I said them being Paradoxes makes sense, but I think their Data Volumes should account for something. Here's some ideas I have:

• Summon Item - Add a summon item for Koraidon and Miraidon respectively. Instead of giving you an egg, they leave another item behind (some sort of DNA thing maybe?,) which can be exchanged for their Data Volume (most likely at Colress' Shack, if the idea below isn't probable.) They shouldn't give the DVs straight up (where would they get those?) If we aren't going to do a dex/chain/master unlock for them, maybe the way you can unlock these summons could be similar to the Ultra Beasts (though MUCH less complicated,) where there is a special "Area Zero Research Lab" place you can unlock the summons by doing certain tasks (what exactly, idk.) This could maybe also be the place where you can exchange the item Korai/Mirai dropped for their DVs. We could maybe even extend this so that the Data Volume Voucher redemption could be used here, instead of being lumped in with the Mega Stones, but this is just extra stuff. If this the route we wanna go, I'd also personally suggest only letting the summon be found in boxes and removing Koraidon and Miraidon's DVs from the Data Volume Voucher pool only once the summon item is fully implemented.

• Make the two required to unlock Azure Flute - I think this should only be added if the two are given summon items, otherwise this could cause issues. Not sure if it should count once the summon item is used or when the DV is applied (since you can use the DV even if you haven't unlocked the summon item, but you wouldn't immediately get a Koraidon/Miraidon when you use the summon.) Personally leaning towards it only counting after using the summon.

• Make Koraidon and Miraidon's DVs exclusive to Tourney Prize Shop - Honestly prefer the summon item route since these guys' form changers are in the tourney shop but this is another idea if a summon item isn't on the table. This would only happen once the Data Volume Voucher is available in the tourney shop (as Niet confirmed here.) This would also mean their DVs would be removed from the standard DV Voucher pool, similar to how you can't get Adamantite or Korokunite Q from Mega Stone Vouchers (obviously I think the DVs should go for less than those 2 items as they aren't uber-rare but separating them from the standard DV pool and maybe making them a little more expensive than the DV Voucher would make them feel more in line with being legendaries.)

• Separate Koraidon and Miraidon's dex entries from Cyclizar's - I'm not sure if this is possible with the current code, but if it is, Koraidon and Miraidon's entries can be listed separately at the end of the Paldea dex instead of being merged with Cyclizar's (both Korai/Mirai would still count as forms of Cyclizar however.) Alternatively, this could work like Koroku and Kyukori where the two are technically considered "evolutions" of Cyclizar so they are listed separately, despite in practice being Paradoxes (Mega in the case of Kyukori.)

Positive points: + Makes Koraidon and Miraidon more consistent with other Legendary Pokémon. + May make the DVs for Koraidon and Miraidon easier to obtain (depends on how this is implemented.) Negative points: - May make the DVs for Koraidon and Miraidon harder to obtain or lose value (depends on how this is implemented.) - Could be considered unnecessary, I suppose? Reason For Consideration: It just feels weird that Koraidon and Miraidon, despite being the box legends for SV, are pretty much just the same as any other Paradox (save for their form changes.) Usually the methods for obtaining Pokémon are consistent with how they're portrayed in canon, with legendaries being much rarer. Koraidon and Miraidon really aren't that much rarer or more special than the other Paradoxes, considering you can just grab them from the DV Voucher pool (granted, you can't get the DV Voucher right now, but I'm thinking ahead here.) Seeing as PFQ tries to stay close to canon rarity as much as possible (see the Gimmighoul fiasco) I think it makes sense for something more to be done to Koraidon and Miraidon. I'm not sure if this is a very popular opinion, but I do wanna hear your thoughts and any other ideas if you have them!

So mixed feelings on this...on one hand, yeah it would be nice to have them be a little more special than other paradox mons to reflect the fact that they're box mons, but I don't know how well these suggestions would work with PFQ. Adding a summon item that just drops DNA to give to an NPC to get their data volume seems to be overtly complicated for the sake of being complicated. And creating a whole Area Zero Research Lab place would take a lot of effort from multiple teams (art team, Niet, writers, etc) just for two mons again seems to be needlessly complicated things. You would definitely have to remove Koraidon and Miradon's volumes from the Data Volume Voucher pool like you mentioned if you go this route. I would suggest instead just adding a traditional summon, unlocked as a chain. Perhaps a Scarlet Terra Crystal and a Violet Terra Crystal, since the books are already taken? You use those to summon Miraidon or Koraidon to get a 30k EHP egg, and simply remove the two volumes from the data voucher pool. However this also completely divorces them from the canon fact that they are a past/future relative of Cyclizar, which I could understand people not wanting to do. Separating their dex entries from Cyclizar's has a similar problem, severing that connection. Additionally Koroku and Kyokuri, while a similar situation, each have a unique dex entry; Kyokuri isn't listed as a "forme" of Koroku in the former's entry. I'm not sure if it would be possible to have Koraidon and Miraidon simultaneously be both a forme of a Pokemon and a unique Pokemon in the dex. For those reasons I can't really support adding a summon. This also means I don't support making them required for Arceus. If you make the two required for unlocking the Azure Flute, then you kind of are forced to give them a summon item. All other items needed are summons, it does not make much sense to have two transmogrifications needed; especially since right now the data volumes are much much rare than most summon items. Of the options you gave, the only one I think would make sense with PFQ would be making their Data Volumes be available in the tournament prize shop and removing them from the Data Volume voucher pool, and make their cost be slightly more than a data volume voucher, much like how the Dragon Balls/Korokunite Q are both more expensive than the Mega Stone vouchers. Honestly it's just a really interesting sitaution made possible by a canon where they are simultaneously super rare Legendary Pokemon in the games' present day, but are probably no more or less rare than Cyclizar are in their respective times.

totally fair. i made the area zero lab idea to kind of parallel the aether foundation as like a lore thing, i agree making it for koraidon and miraidon only is kinda.... eh, but my idea is to potentially have all the paradox stuff moved there so it serves a purpose other than that. would definitely put more things on staff's plate though. (also pledge grove is there just to get one legend's form change so in that case i do feel there is a bit of a precedent to have a unique area for a certain legendary.) as for the dex thing... yeah, it's kinda difficult. it being a koroku/kyukori situation would mean they'd technically be considered "evolutions" of cyclizar, which is weird.

I do genuinely like this idea it's really interesting I do prefer to go the summon item route mostly due to the fact that people use their tokens to buy eggs from the tourney or sell them to other users or in some cases hoard them because I do see people that hoard legacy items when they can't be used anymore they use them as held items for their Pokemon or just for a personal little collection.

bump!

Support the aetherhouse is a good idea for example you need to collect all paradoxes for the summons or smth

Ouch nope nope nope, excesive cost

oh goodness, hopefully not like this! i think a different set of tasks is much better and far more viable than needing all paradoxes.

I'm only speaking up now because I'm surprised by the supports. I totally understand why people would, but to me, no, absolutely not. I already have a minor grudge towards the Mega-like items, they feel much rarer than the summons (which is probably why one type of item has a voucher and the other doesn't, hmm...) and even if you make them summons, that then makes them not match up with other paradoxes. The whole "tourney" thing technically could work since Meltan is there despite being a canon mon, but the Scarlet/Violet book are already present, in a way that makes them special since you need tourney interactions for their "true" forms. It's a case where I can see where you're coming from, but nothing really feels like it could work out in a way that doesn't make them annoying in one sense or another.

bumpalump considering data volume vouchers will be available in the tourney shop starting tomorrow i figure this is the best time to bump this up. if there's an idea you have on this feel free to share!