Removing Post Upvotes

I know how this sounds up front, and I know there's probably going to be very mixed opinions on this... but I'll do my best to explain how I think this will help the environment on the forums. It's been a topic of debate recently that the forums are unwelcoming, toxic, and full of arguments. This goes especially for news and announcement threads. People have a tendency to word things in a way that gets them the most "clout"-- which also tends to be very hostile in certain discussions. It's the same mentality that "ratioing" someone on Twitter has: post a nasty and snarky reply to someone and feel good about yourself when it gets more likes. I think that upvotes can still have good purposes and can be used respectfully in some places, which is why it's a shame that they can be abused in some situations as well. I would propose one of two actions: - Removing all upvotes outright or - Removing upvotes from all announcements threads, possibly suggestions replies (since this forum can be very unwelcoming too, but I think it's helpful for original posts), and keeping upvotes on other areas of the sites such as Journals, art threads, etc. If upvotes are removed in the Suggestions forum, there could also be a mandatory support/neutral/no support poll. Sometimes upvotes can also be handy in the Trades forums to let people know when their posts have been read, so there could also be a "read" function that you can flag to let the post author know that you've seen it. Feedback much appreciated; thank you!

Honestly, full support. For both User!Cele reasons and Mod!Cele reasons. For clarification, though, my response will largely be kept to User!Cele level of opinion but with mentions of staff. I'm going to just bluntly state I realize some (no specific names in mind, just whoever is inclined to think this way can rhetorically self-identify on their own) may believe it's just because I don't like those "sick dunks" being against staff members or whatever, but it bothers me immensely in all scenarios. Users against users, users against staff, it's all the same to me. The conflict is tiring in general, and is toxic in general. I'm of the mind that the votes, in part, push people higher onto their horse and make them buckle down on their rampant emotions rather than see the logic of those they're speaking to. There shouldn't be clout chasing or ratioing at all, and I think the upvote system falls short in those precise areas you've indicated. Thanks for the good suggestion. 👍

sort of support, i think upvotes can be useful in update threads to see what sentiments most people follow (some posts get lots of upvotes and 0 responses), but most of the time it is just egging on people to be edgier

IDK. I think upvotes are an easy way to say “I agree with you” without just commenting “Support!” or quoting and saying “I agree”. I’d rather see a post with 5 upvotes than with 5 “Agree” responses below it. And if it’s a controversial topic, an upvote can be a good way to show you agree with somebody even if you’re afraid to speak out. I understand the drawbacks that others have said do exist, but there are these benefits as well so I have mixed feelings I guess.

I like the idea, but I think maybe something more in the lines of how likes are starting to be handled on social medias would be beneficial. For example, instead of *removing* the likes, making them "unknown" to anyone besides the person being upvoted, or unknown to anyone besides mods or something..? A bit like an anonymous poll, just, without having an actual poll for every single comment or thread. I don't know, just a thought!

as a new user i've already found the forums pretty unwelcoming (not explicitly, just The Vibe - i've been around forums all my life so i know the feel) i really don't consider the upvote feature to be a part of that, but maybe i'm too new to understand why i come from other sites with an upvote-only mechanic and i've never known it to cause problems there. downvotes, yes, those are inherently toxic. it's good the site doesn't have those. i won't actually be upset to lose upvotes, but i do find them a very simple way of expressing support without having to flood the forum with quote-"this" posts and i won't be doing that, so in a passive way removing them would make me less likely to read the forums i do agree that all suggestion threads should automatically have a support/no support poll added to them though (but only if it's possible to change our vote at any time), that would be a good addition regardless

i'm kind of on the fence about this, to be honest. i can definitely see where you're coming from and i kind of agree in a way, like how i always see whenever a staff member replies in a thread they usually get a lot more upvotes than regular players and that might intimidate the op. but the way i see it is kind of like what topmarks said, where upvotes are just a way to show your agreement without flooding the thread with simple replies that just say "this" , "agree", etc. if we were to remove upvotes, you would have to scroll through pages and pages of one-word replies just to find more information or other points people have brought up. whenever a thread post gets a lot of upvotes, more often than not, that person just made a really great point. i don't personally consider those kinds of posts to be similar to "ratios" but i suppose the interpretation of it depends from person to person.

I think that's the key- it relies solely on your individual interpretation, which isn't really something the site can control. If you post your opinion, and someone disagrees with you and their post gets more upvotes, it's up to you to interpret that. Inherently, disagreeing with somebody isn't a rude thing. If their post is politely worded and just a disagreement or counterpoint, and it gets more upvotes than you, and you interpret that as someone being rude to you or "ratioing" you or whatever, that's kind of... on you. If you can't handle someone disagreeing with you that's a "you" problem and it's not because the site has upvotes. Now if the content of their post is rude ("I think that's a dumb idea", "I always thought RMT was really scummy", etc.), that's a completely different matter but doesn't really have anything to do with upvotes. Additionally, if you're scared to respond to someone because they got upvotes, that's on you as well. I can't see a reason to actually be scared. If you respond to a post with many upvotes disagreeing with it and someone responds or messages you in a rude way, report that? Are people genuinely scared of not getting "enough" upvotes? I truly do not understand. It seems like some people think that people are motivated by upvotes to post snarky things. I don't really understand that. I'm not saying it doesn't happen or isn't true, but I don't understand it. And currently I do not understand how that is something inherently tied to upvotes existing on the site- it seems like that comes from people interpreting them in different ways. In my opinion, the benefits from the upvote system outweigh the fact that some users may be motivated to be rude to get them, as I feel like rude posts should be moderated or removed and exist completely separately from the upvote system. Sorry this was a bit rambly. EDIT: I reread my post and I'm concerned I came off a bit judgemental. If someone is genuinely upset because someone disagreed with their post and got a lot of upvotes, that's okay. I'm not judging someone for that, I just meant to say that I don't understand feeling that way, but that doesn't mean I don't think it's okay to feel that way. And I don't know if it's a good reason to get rid of upvotes, because like I said if someone isn't explicitly rude to you then it's kind of your fault if you get upset at a little number next to a cartoon thumbs up, but just because it's "your fault" doesn't mean it's bad to feel that way or wrong. Sorry if I upset anybody.

It's like bullies feel powerful when there are people laughing at the victim and the laughter is the people's way of "suporting the bully." I'm not saying that people are bullies I'm saying it's the feeling of power people get when they feel they have support that makes them post snarky things or have this "I have 50 upvotes so the mods should consider my opinion more than others" attitude *Note: I'm not speaking for anyone or implying that's what people feel it's just what i think might be happening

I could possibly support this for suggestions/announcement threads but I wouldn't want this to be implemented throughout the whole forums. Personally I use the upvotes in my trade shop/sometimes in temp trade threads to signify that I've already sent a trade and I know others that do this too. I can be forgetful sometimes, so it's a great way for me not to get confused without spamming my thread with a "sent" post after each post.