Contests & Artists' Rights

I'm happy to hear about this because the art I make, considering it's traditional I like to tape on my wall and the way the people were stating that it belongs to them made me a little worried because I like to put things like that on my FB or Tumblr account after the contests have ended. I was just uncertain if even doing that was aloud or not before.

;o) Thank you for these rules garth

But wait... This is exactly what you guys were doing when hiring artists and spriters. That's pretty hypocritical. Love the irony.

I'm not sure I see a connection here. The announcement is talking about user-made contests. The screenshot you linked is from the custom sprite submissions on the old PF (not from hiring artists and spriters - it was for users to submit sprites they wanted to see as official Custom Sprites). There is a difference in entries to user-made contests and submissions to become official custom sprites. This announcement is referring to people saying "You entered my contest; you didn't necessarily win any prize; now I have the rights to use this art, and you don't." I'm friends with a lot of artists. Artists do not like having no control over what their art is used for. Entering an unofficial contest only to have the right to their own art taken away is not a good experience for anyone. But if you're submitting a sprite that is to become an official event on a website, of course you have to give the website permission to use / distribute it. There's a message on the submission page to make sure you understand that.

Artists of the Submitted Sprites were allowed to Claim one Free Sprite when their sprite was released and they were marked as the person who sprited it in the P3 lab. I'm not sure if it was intended but it seems like a pretty fair trade. Free Onsite Sprite(tipped) and Credit as payment? But for that, you weren't allowed to turn around and give legal trouble because you did see in writing the terms of what you were accepting. Think of it as a way of keeping their butts covered in case of people who turned tail and tried to pull a nasty because of a disagreement on something else. It's not really fair to the people on the receiving end if they're given the sprite to use, for someone else to turn around and try and take it away over something on a completely different topic. Something like that can mess with both the people running the website AND the people who come to enjoy the website themselves. Paymentwise, the Sprite was something you could trade away(or collect) if you chose and you were given Credit that if someone liked your sprite and you were an active spriter, you could potentially get more "Business". Sort of like free advertisement almost. It at least suited me. -shrugs- Others may have wanted more but it seemed like a Fair trade/Reasonable Compensation. That's also the Old Website and you're comparing Apples to Oranges. Yes, they're both Fruit and come from trees with flowers but their flavours are different.

Lol I'm a professional freelance artist and that's not how it goes. That's called exploitation: when someone asks you to do something for free, earns a ton of money because of it, and you get a free sample. Fair would be either the person getting a share of that profit for an X amount of time, or getting a specific amount of money or gratification for the sprite itself. THAT would be fair, and that's how the industry works. The screenshot being from PF1 of PFQ doesn't really matter? I did apply to be an artist for the website at one time, and I remember clearly how they would put a "disclaimer" saying ALL of the rights of YOUR art were owned by PF as soon as you posted it - and you wouldn't get anything in return. I've talked to artists and spriters who did stuff for the website, and it looks like nothing has changed.

I want to tell you right now, that there's a huge difference between "exploitation" and "giving people what they want". We were told, by the users, that the users wanted to have input on the events, and thus it was given. Plus you're comparing the old PF Custom Sprite Uploader deal (that was on PF1) to User-Submitted Contests on a completely new site (PFQ) so... The comparison kinda makes what you're saying rather negligible as it's not really comparable at all. They're different, not the same. If you don't approve of the terms set for something, it's simple of what you do - You do not submit the work. Considering that you haven't been here - as you've clearly noted yourself... You don't get to call if anything has changed, not by your attitude on PF1 and not by your attitude here. Coming here and attempting to start a flame war when you're the one missing the point...? I'm sorry, you're only lending credence to the concept that you're in the wrong. The art used may "belong" to the site, but it was still made by someone else. The creation belongs to them and we're not saying otherwise. The idea that we are is laughable, which only shows your ignorance on the matter. As an aside... Notice that we don't have user-submitted custom sprites here? That's because we don't know how to properly implement them - how to give back to the person who made them. But that's something on a long list of things we're working through. It should've been done in the beginning - but then, things weren't as they are now. I know it's hard to believe, but things can change, just like people - and it doesn't matter whether you believe it or not. Fact is fact. Also "talked to artists and spriters who did stuff for the website". Yeah, probably the old ones. In the past. The past being completely appropriate to the present time, yeah? Obviously not - but then, that shouldn't need saying. It's common sense. If you have some serious feedback, by all means - we've open ears (or eyes, so to speak). But right now, talking as you are? ...No. I don't think so. If you're actually providing some sort of feedback, it's lost amidst your unprovoked anger, and you've only yourself to blame for that. If you're not interested in being a part of the site, then do everyone, including yourself, a favor - and step away. We're not interested in anyone that's just here to stir the pot unnecessarily (meaning "here to cause drama"). We're open to feedback, but this is nothing short of an attempted attack - and I say "attempted" because the points that you've brought up are logically invalid, and are thus moot.

Animela is correct in stating that PF1 and PFQ have nothing to do with each other-- so yes, the origin of the screenshot does matter. Despite a fair amount of the current staff operating on both, the rights held by each site are not the necessarily same. Think of PF1 as Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald, and PFQ as OmegaRuby/AlphaSapphire. Are they the same thing? No-- they're based off the same thing, but they're not the same thing, or Game Freak may as well have just done a re-release of the original GBA games. Instead, new Pokémon were added, new characters were added, multiple locations and characters and even the plot itself have been revised. Did everything from the first game come back in the second? No- the Game Corner missing from the second games even though it existed in the first is a relatively good example of the games adapting to meet with legal requirements. You know, kind of like what PFQ is doing now, differently from PF1. To address your issue with PF1 nonetheless, the rules on submitting sprites were clear: if you submit a sprite and it's pending decision, you can't use it for other things because, in that period of indecision, the sprite belongs to the site, effectively disabling you from submitting it elsewhere. If it's rejected, the sprite's rights are returned to you and you can do whatever you want with it. But if it's accepted, the "contract" you signed upon submitting the image becomes binding. The submitted image then belongs to the site, but still credits the artist. Such a disclaimer is always put on the submission page. What applied to PF1 does not necessarily apply to PFQ, and so anything that could hold true to PF1 does not have to hold true on here. We are trying to change the way things work. We are still trying to save all the things that made PF1 good, and make PFQ better. If you'd rather stay stuck in the past and use PF1 as basis for your arguments, instead of look at what's happening now and see what we're trying to achieve...well, it's kind of unfortunate that indeed nothing has changed, but then I'm no longer talking about the site. Also, as a personal comment on the matter... PF1 never actively went out asking users to submit art for them for free. If you submitted art, it was entirely you voluntarily submitting work. Even I submitted some sprites, one of which was actually released (Kamaitachi Floatzel, if you were wondering). I've submitted ~4 other sprites but, while one was acceped, none were released. I knew fully well the risk that PF1 would own the images...and I didn't care. That's what I wanted; I wanted my art to be released and enjoyed by the users. Seeing that was compensation enough. Seriously I SCREECHED IN PURE HAPPINESS when I came across a few users who were even making armies of my Floatzels because they loved them that much. Now that I'm an artist for PFQ itself, I feel the very same way. I contacted Sei knowing FULL WELL that this was a voluntary job; I would not be paid, the art would be owned by PFQ, etc. Yes, staff might be compensated for their work- but it is not proper payment in the slightest. It doesn't even equate to minimum wage. But I didn't sign up to be an artist to be paid- I signed up to produce artwork for a site I enjoy, to try to give the users something to enjoy. If you wouldn't want to do this? You know what - fantastic. Good for you, more power to you, etc; that's your choice and I support you making that decision. But you're not me, are you? You don't get to tell me if I'm being "exploited" when it's something I personally chose to do.

So question about this, and maybe it's already been answered but in different wording. Ive seen a contest that is "make me a new OC" one of the rules is: "Even if you dont win I gain ownership to the character." Is this still allowed or is this breaking the rule? I mean, they never said they would claim the art as their own but basically the artist is losing their design(unable to use it themselves) without winning a prize.

That is actually a very good question and the answer would be the following: Nopes. Not allowed and totally breaking the rule. The artist designed an OC, in hope of getting something back. If the OC ain't selected, it goes back to the artist. (Like the CS on PF1 :3 )