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Digging up Plants

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Peckish's AvatarPeckish
Peckish's Avatar
Hello! I was reminded by this tournament that you can't 'dig up' plants, and I think that this should be a feature as it is a simple change that can help people who accidentally plant the wrong berries. I believe that this could just be another button on each plant, that digs it up. Once dup up, you would not get the berry or mulch back. I can't release see the downside to this, maybe there would have to be a cooldown or the action taking time to complete to avoid abuse.
Icon by Flyeahfy for my use Grookey
161/250 Till my Zarude hunt!
KaidaMcWoomy's AvatarKaidaMcWoomy
KaidaMcWoomy's Avatar
No support. The short version is that the time-management skills needed to get high yields consistently + the high cost of the best accessories/the skill needed to get the best quality pokeblocks is where the effort for the garden is realized, not by weeding. I'm a bit more open to the dig up option then the weed option, but even that I'm not sure if it's necessary. The long version is in the accordion sections below so this post doesn't take up a ton of screen space on the forum in the form of a psuedo-bulleted list

Berry Replant Issues

It's not really faithful to the Pokemon games Faithful to the real-world, yes. Faithful to the Pokemon games? Not so much. While this is a fangame and it does take certain creative liberties, they do try to at least keep mechanics as close to the mainline games as they can The consequences for misplanting are similar to mis-adpoting If you mistakenly adopt the wrong egg when special hunting, you either have to wait x number of hours to release it or buy an egg hatch pass to hatch it without breaking the chain. Similarly, if you misplant a berry, you have to wait for it to grow. In fact, you could argue that the penalty for misplanting the berry is lesser than that of grabbing the wrong egg since it's not something that can be lessened with hypermode. Overall though, waiting the days for the berry to grow isn't that bad. It's a small price to pay for paying more attention to what you're clicking on.

Weeding Issues

Some players might say it's an annoyance I'd be one of them. If I want to plant berries, I don't want to have to worry about how many slots are free if it's been a while. I want to be able to go, plant my 32 berries, and be on my merry way. I don't want to have to wait an hour for me to weed all of them and then plant them. It doesn't really feel like it fits with the berry mechanics So the game uses mechanics that are similar to gen 3/4. Weeding was in X and Y only, which used a completely different berry growing system. Additionally weeding's role was completely different from what you're describing here - it increased berry yield rather than preventing you from planting more. XY-style weeding just doesn't really seem like it'd fit well with the current mechanics, and I'm not sure if yours would either. how long does a freshly-weeded spot keep free of weeds? When's the server going to check empty slots to re-run the rng for weed growing? If they do it every x number of minutes, then what happens if a slot gets freed up the minute before the check is run? It'd be frustrating to spend an hour weeding the slot, only for it to magically have weeds again the minute you finish weeding it. If there is a grace period, how long is said grace period? How do you know there are weeds anyways? Is there going to be a notification? Idk if that's possible - people have asked for notifications for damp garden plants before and it's not been implemented. If there is not notifications, are you just going to have to check the garden every hour if there are open slots? That leads to the issue that most people aren't going to be able to do that. We have school, jobs, and (hopefully) a healthy amount of sleep. We're off the website for hours at a time. Coming back to weeds in our garden just because we can't get on every hour seems like an unneccessary penalty. Most importantly... It encourages people to keep full gardens by using negative consequences rather than positive results If you keep a full garden you won't have weeds. If you won't have weeds, you'll always have a full garden. But that means that you're not keeping the garden full because you enjoy it, or because you're griding for a contest accessory or trying to make lots of pokeblocks. You keep the garden full so there just won't be weeds. I don't think that is something that a very low-stakes, casual, light-hearted game like PokefarmQ should be doing.

Misc Issues/Questions

Does the game need to be realisitic? I mean, it's a game about Pokemon. It's already unrealistic. I don't know if making it "more realistic" by adding more mechanics is necessary How would this affect the economy Changing how the berry garden works will in turn affect the market economy for berries and pokeblocks. Other changes (such as the special rates) are implemented or denied in part based on how it affects the economy of those items/specials. Would perfect berries have to cost more? would mulch? I personally am not sure how this change would affect things, but it is something to keep in mind since it's show up so much as justification for denying or accepting other suggestions. the effort comes from growing high yields consistently for contests Just going to expand on the short version I put above. Consider that with contests each category has accessories that score better, and a lot of the best ones cost a lot of berries. Consider the comet which scores well in the bright category of contests. It costs 999 Belue Berries. Each plant can yield about 10 berries if you do a decent job watering them, so let's just take that as our average yield. It takes 60 hours (5 days) to grow without any mulch modifiers. Lets say you have a maxed out garden, so 32 slots. that means you get 320 berries in 5 days. That means that it'll take 20 days to get enough berries for a single comet. Now consider that symmetrical designs historically do best in contests, so you'll need more than one comet. The most common variations are six-segment, eight-segment, and ten-segment circles. Let's just say 8-segment since that's the average. That means you need 8 coments, which is 160 days of growing time assuming non-stop growing happens. So yeah, high yields consistently is where the effort comes in. I don't really think if we need to artificially inflate it by adding more features to make it harder to grow things
She/Her please! I have free fields and free breeding pairs to give away so go to my shop if you want any! Please don't send trade related pms :) Previous Hunt: Paused Hunt: with a 2400ish chain Type Race: 213
Peckish's AvatarPeckish
Peckish's Avatar

QUOTE originally posted by KaidaMcWoomy

No support. The short version is that the time-management skills needed to get high yields consistently + the high cost of the best accessories/the skill needed to get the best quality pokeblocks is where the effort for the garden is realized, not by weeding. I'm a bit more open to the dig up option then the weed option, but even that I'm not sure if it's necessary. The long version is in the accordion sections below so this post doesn't take up a ton of screen space on the forum in the form of a psuedo-bulleted list

Berry Replant Issues

It's not really faithful to the Pokemon games Faithful to the real-world, yes. Faithful to the Pokemon games? Not so much. While this is a fangame and it does take certain creative liberties, they do try to at least keep mechanics as close to the mainline games as they can The consequences for misplanting are similar to mis-adpoting If you mistakenly adopt the wrong egg when special hunting, you either have to wait x number of hours to release it or buy an egg hatch pass to hatch it without breaking the chain. Similarly, if you misplant a berry, you have to wait for it to grow. In fact, you could argue that the penalty for misplanting the berry is lesser than that of grabbing the wrong egg since it's not something that can be lessened with hypermode. Overall though, waiting the days for the berry to grow isn't that bad. It's a small price to pay for paying more attention to what you're clicking on.

Weeding Issues

Some players might say it's an annoyance I'd be one of them. If I want to plant berries, I don't want to have to worry about how many slots are free if it's been a while. I want to be able to go, plant my 32 berries, and be on my merry way. I don't want to have to wait an hour for me to weed all of them and then plant them. It doesn't really feel like it fits with the berry mechanics So the game uses mechanics that are similar to gen 3/4. Weeding was in X and Y only, which used a completely different berry growing system. Additionally weeding's role was completely different from what you're describing here - it increased berry yield rather than preventing you from planting more. XY-style weeding just doesn't really seem like it'd fit well with the current mechanics, and I'm not sure if yours would either. how long does a freshly-weeded spot keep free of weeds? When's the server going to check empty slots to re-run the rng for weed growing? If they do it every x number of minutes, then what happens if a slot gets freed up the minute before the check is run? It'd be frustrating to spend an hour weeding the slot, only for it to magically have weeds again the minute you finish weeding it. If there is a grace period, how long is said grace period? How do you know there are weeds anyways? Is there going to be a notification? Idk if that's possible - people have asked for notifications for damp garden plants before and it's not been implemented. If there is not notifications, are you just going to have to check the garden every hour if there are open slots? That leads to the issue that most people aren't going to be able to do that. We have school, jobs, and (hopefully) a healthy amount of sleep. We're off the website for hours at a time. Coming back to weeds in our garden just because we can't get on every hour seems like an unneccessary penalty. Most importantly... It encourages people to keep full gardens by using negative consequences rather than positive results If you keep a full garden you won't have weeds. If you won't have weeds, you'll always have a full garden. But that means that you're not keeping the garden full because you enjoy it, or because you're griding for a contest accessory or trying to make lots of pokeblocks. You keep the garden full so there just won't be weeds. I don't think that is something that a very low-stakes, casual, light-hearted game like PokefarmQ should be doing.

Misc Issues/Questions

Does the game need to be realisitic? I mean, it's a game about Pokemon. It's already unrealistic. I don't know if making it "more realistic" by adding more mechanics is necessary How would this affect the economy Changing how the berry garden works will in turn affect the market economy for berries and pokeblocks. Other changes (such as the special rates) are implemented or denied in part based on how it affects the economy of those items/specials. Would perfect berries have to cost more? would mulch? I personally am not sure how this change would affect things, but it is something to keep in mind since it's show up so much as justification for denying or accepting other suggestions. the effort comes from growing high yields consistently for contests Just going to expand on the short version I put above. Consider that with contests each category has accessories that score better, and a lot of the best ones cost a lot of berries. Consider the comet which scores well in the bright category of contests. It costs 999 Belue Berries. Each plant can yield about 10 berries if you do a decent job watering them, so let's just take that as our average yield. It takes 60 hours (5 days) to grow without any mulch modifiers. Lets say you have a maxed out garden, so 32 slots. that means you get 320 berries in 5 days. That means that it'll take 20 days to get enough berries for a single comet. Now consider that symmetrical designs historically do best in contests, so you'll need more than one comet. The most common variations are six-segment, eight-segment, and ten-segment circles. Let's just say 8-segment since that's the average. That means you need 8 coments, which is 160 days of growing time assuming non-stop growing happens. So yeah, high yields consistently is where the effort comes in. I don't really think if we need to artificially inflate it by adding more features to make it harder to grow things
I'll try an make my response a short one. What you say about berry replanting is true, however what you say about the consequences are similar to mis-adopting, we could just implement the same or a very similar system. Your wedding issues bring up very valid points, and I kind of just threw weeding out on a whim, as I thought of it while writing this suggestion. After all the points you and others not liking it, I have removed that part of the suggestion, as I didn't think it out enough. Finally, in response to your other questions, I don't think this would affect the economy much.
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RosyBird's AvatarRosyBird
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Support, I like this idea! During the berry harvesting tournament last week I had a late start because I had planted berries that take 96 hours to harvest, before the tourney type was revealed. Over a day had passed since the start of the tourney before I could harvest and plant faster growing berries. I wish this feature was in place because it left absolutely no hope of catching up to the leaderboard :,) I think just losing/wasting whatever berries/mulch you used upon digging them up would be a sufficient cost for doing it. It would prevent unnecessary/excessive use because at that point you're just throwing away berries. In general I can't really think of a way this could be abused or break the berry system, as for the most part I don't think there's a reason you'd want to do this outside of berry harvesting tourneys. Maybe it would mess with berry harvesting tourneys, if everyone could then prep their berry gardens beforehand? But other tournaments allow for that same type of 'setup' to earn points ASAP. So I don't think that would be an issue. If it needs more limitation, maybe you can only do it once the plants have sprouted? As well as having to dig up each plant individually, no "dig up all" option.
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