Sprite Discovery Discussion

That's the thing, though. It is personal. Art is personal, and "it's ugly" is a statement that is said to hurt in a personal way. It being "how it is" doesn't excuse it. If that's "just how it is," then it should change. Hurting other people shouldn't be "just how it is." That's not okay. Is it so hard to change how you express yourself so you don't hurt the person on the other side of your screen? It's just a few words that you have to change in order to spare someone that kind of pain, so shouldn't that be something that's so simple for you to accomodate? Even more so, shouldn't it be an accomodation you make regardless simply due to the fact that they're a person just like you, who has feelings just like you? And even if you need a logical reason to not say something so hurtful, then Site Rule 2 is something I could point at -- after all, you agreed to these rules. Everyone did. Treating someone else the way you would like to be treated is something I could say as well. It's not hard to give your criticisms in a way that's not unkind. You don't have to kiss up to the artists. You're welcome to say that you don't like something. Just don't hurt them in the process. That's all we ask.

Advance warning, this is going to be long and probably drift from the topic at hand. Background stuff behind a hidebox, feel free to read for extra context. When I do have time to play, if I focus on my own goals of progressing the wishforge and collecting boxes, it's very mellow. But if I read the suggestions forum, or certain updates, or think about starting a new melan hunt... It gets a little more stressful. There has been a big emphasis on politeness toward staff in this thread, which I completely understand. We may not see the rule breakers who throw insults, but the moderators do and I'm sure it's very disheartening to see your hard work spat upon. But please understand that the users feel like our thoughts, opinions, and feelings are also often spat upon. There are a lot of players who will disagree with any change, no matter how minor or how good of a change it is. There are also a lot of players that welcome change and defend staff. I, and many others still, probably land in the middle. Some things are great- the new wishforge ideas are awesome, and I'm super excited for them! Some are less fun, but make sense- like rebalancing shiny rates and the like. Some don't make any sense at all- the albino and melan tweaks. I'm just having a really hard time wrapping my mind around why color changes are necessary. I often see project ideas in the suggestions forum shot down because "the art team is busy already". But why are we focusing on changing old, perfectly functional (and often beloved), things? And why do the players have no input for a very import part of this game? In the end I think what we are upset about the lack of user input. We need to come to an agreement regarding color tweaks. Players need to be involved in some way, whether it be voting, or the ability to keep the old colors, or something different. Or else this conversation will repeat every time a color gets changed. To cap off this obscenely long post, please know I still enjoy this site, and appreciate everyone who works hard on keeping it afloat. I know pleasing everyone is impossible. But if we could work together to make as many people on both sides happy, I think that's the most anyone can ask for :)

Ahh... I promise this is not an attack on any one artist or the art itself, but this is an unfathomable choice to me again ;__; Being so harshly bound by the self-imposed rules that you have to change canon colorations, even if only minorly, seems extremely misguided. In fact, I would argue that the strictness of these guidelines has resulted in increasingly bland and predictable results (to me!), and is taking all of the artistry out of the spritework. If I can guess what color a sprite will be by a bit of color math between the differences of the normal and shiny sprites, what's even the point of doing them by hand at that rate? You're essentially recreating an algorithm that even a simple program could execute. (And I'm speaking from personal experience-- I have worked with Pokemon sprite manipulation in C++ as a hobby in years past!) I can also observe that the "rules" have been one of the most common complaints in this thread, not only now, but going back substantially into the past. I completely understand the necessity of establishing art direction for consistency, but I can also say that it seems to have swung in the exact opposite direction, where it's instead stifling creativity. To reiterate, it's never my intent to grill the artists or force change. But the color math rules have been buckled down on by the art staff as a unit, which is incredibly frustrating to many users. And I wish it were something that I could just let go, but collecting appealing sprites *is* the draw to PFQ lategame. I'm not angry, and I'm not going to assert that their work is "ugly", because the artists are literally just following the rules dictated to them. And that's why I think the rules themselves are the root problem and what ideally should change.

Right - it seems no gen is safe. I fear that exclusives will be affected at some point (eg. I'd shed real tears if the Kinaster in my signature changed.) I like the idea of tweaking the sprites' outlines and shading. Some of them did need updating after all. And of course, it is impossible to please 100% of the userbase, so the mods' and artists' concerns are valid. However, I also feel that valuable user feedback is being somewhat ignored especially with the amount of concerned posts here. The artists are very talented people and I commend their hard work towards the site. However I think something does need to be done about this, whether by tweaking the color rules or, like others have suggested, a sprite vote thread where we get a choice of a few potential color schemes before the final product is introduced.

so, of course. we can do our best to word things carefully to not harm people. such as saying we dont like 'this and this' about the art. and i know there is a ton of negativity on the thread. but if we didnt like and enjoy the art here. i'd like to make a reminder, because reminders are nice. if we didnt like the art here, many many people wouldnt be here and care for the pokemon they have like they do~ which is why many of us worry <3 as for an actual Sprite question. i dunno if this has been asked before, because of extensive forums and i'd never be able to find it. but, is there going to be anything for pokes that dont have full Mini Sprites finished? example. Fletchling line doesnt have working Melan mini sprites on the site~ [pkmn=fletchling (M)] = [pkmn=fletchinder (M)] = [pkmn=Talonflame (M)] =

Unova and Kalos don't have working Albino or Melan minisprites, but I believe they're being created and uploaded as the sprite revamps happen.

oh the whole regions dont? i've never bothered to check how extensive it was, heh. but if thats the case, thats good to know!

I use minisprites a lot in my hunt tracking posts and when updating my About Me with what I'm hunting for the type race - I first noticed it when setting up my hunt post for Foongus & Amoongus, and there's no cute little albino or melan mushroom sprite There are a select few have their albino & melan minisprites, like if they have a variant/totem/mega Q then they get updated ahead of time, but the majority of the region doesn't have Albino or Melan minisprites yet

See, this is much better. An actual discussion. I don't have much to offer right now but one thing I will answer is this: > why are we focusing on changing old, perfectly functional things? Why settle for "functional"? "Settling for functional" is what killed PF1. "Settling for functional" is the reason I absolutely hate working on PFQ's code now. This is exactly the kind of thing I mean when I say our standards have improved and our work will be updated to reflect that. > You're essentially recreating an algorithm that even a simple program could execute. While the algorithm used to determine the overall colour could indeed be done by a program, the sprite itself cannot be. There's a lot more that goes into it than just shifting the hue. I'm sure an artist could explain a little more than me but it's a lengthy process with lots of artistry to get it just right. Also, we usually end up with about four different options to choose from that all fit "the algorithm" and the artists then work together to try and pick the best one.

The new mega is beautiful! I can't wait to see the melan!!